David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.

[zyder]

Thank you both,

Yes, the same Michael. I'm separated from my records at the moment so this is from memory but his daughter Catherine married John Brewerton in abt 1868 at Manchester Cathedral. John died about 1886, aged 40ish. Their son John Richards Brewerton (my G Grandad) was born about 1869 and is found with his Grandad Michael Richards in 1881 census, presumably making a family visit. This John died 1904, so not reaching 40.

I have a postcard dated 1904 sent to John Richards Brewerton shortly before he died of Glanrafon Hotel, Red Wharf Bay sent from "Jane", who I suspect is Catherine's younger sister Jane. I know my Grandfather Stanley Brewerton often holidayed with relatives at Red Wharf Bay before WW1 but I don't know with whom. My impression is that Michael and some others moved more inland from their time at Parciau but presumably some will have stayed in the area of Benlech.

Enjoy your trip and I'll be interested in anything related on your return.

Regards
David

[Viking666]

 The people that you mention are well known to me. Without notes, I won't risk adding too much detail but I have hopes of resurrecting an old e-mail that was sent that contained my family tree.
 Catherine and John were provision merchants at Upper Brook St, Chorlton. She had a sister, with family, living close by and my father was born in Chorlton whilst his parents, Thomas and Mary, were visiting in 1898.
 Yes, Michael senior moved to Bod-Deiniol farm, Llanbabo. Jane was born there. The relatives at the Glanrafon Arms were the family of Michael's son, Michael.
          I'll PM you if I can recover the old e-mail.
                            Regards, Peter

Addendum. PM sent with details.

 

[zyder]

Thanks Peter,
Yes I've quite a lot on Brewertons although I didn't realise Catherine's sister had moved to the Manchester area too...that's Mary I presume? Thomas?
I wrote to the Glanrafon Arms back in the 1980s and got some information which they kindly gathered from an old lady in the village, although it wasn't conclusive on Michael so that is good to know.
btw I re-read your John and James thread yesterday evening, more of it is sticking but patronymic naming is a nightmare isn't it!
Much appreciated,
David

[Viking666]

Patronymics! The owner of the Glanrafon Arms that you mentioned was Michael, the son of Michael,
and he had a son, Michael. There is also a more recent case where my father Michael has a son Michael, he has a son Michael, and he has a son Michael.
                                       Regards, Peter

[zyder]

Hi Peter,

Thanks indeed! A number of pennies have dropped! I couldn't reply to your PM btw.

Welsh placenames lose me and I hadn't realised before that Glanyr Afon = Glanrafon (1861 for Catherine). 

I hadn't found John Brewerton 1846-1881 previously in 1871 census as Omnibus Guard, he was just missing but most of my Brewerton and Richards research I did 25 years+ ago. What's available now online is wonderful by comparison! David Owen is a witness at John and Catherine's wedding in 1868.

Funny about the Michaels...my grandad Stanley Brewerton told me when I was little that all above him were John Brewertons as far as...I found six Johns with a spurious Thomas in the middle!

I have very little on Richards really which you have discovered in much more detail than I. The postcard from Jane to John Richards Brewerton is here...
http://brewertons.squirrelhouse.biz/tree/ljbpics1/glanrafon-hotel.jpg
http://brewertons.squirrelhouse.biz/tree/ljbpics1/glanrafon-hotel-postcard.jpg

It's great to be able to join the dots, it gives much more of a sense of what the family was like. It's all so clear too how very family centric the Richards were. John Brewerton b1846's father John Brewerton b1824 dominated the Brewertons in Manchester as far as I can tell. He was fairly successful, had 8 children with his first wife, divorced her, married his cousin and had another 8 children. I get the feeling though that John Brewerton b1846 turned more to his wife's family Richards after his mother Agnes died the following year. After John Richards Brewerton died in 1904, my grandad Stanley Brewerton and his twin Cyril seemed to get no help from their grandad John Brewerton b1824 so it's good to understand now how his Richards relatives helped and gave him holidays at Glanrafon.

btw What Software do you use? Do you like it? My records started on a DOS system I wrote in 1987 then moved into Family Tree Maker v6 about 2000ish but it's not an easy system to use. I can export to GEDCOM.

Regards

David

[despair]

Just to add to the mix,I've realised there is possibly another Thomas Richard(s),whose wife is given as Mary,eldest daughter of Hugh Rice,clerk(image 2 of his will of 1767).
There is a degree of consistency here with the indentures of 1722(Hugh Rice/Thomas Richards) and 1738(Hugh Rice/Thomas Richard).Whether this is the same man as the 1757 and 1765 indentures,which lead to William Davies is open to question-and,of course by 1777 we have Thomas Richards and his wife Jane(deceased).

Regards
Roger

[Viking666]

Hi Roger,
              The Viking is on his way home at last. Storms and cancelled ferry sailings giving me a few extra days away so I'm still in Norway, but hope to be "back in business", soon.
                                Regards from Peter.

[Viking666]

Hi Roger,
    I've just had a quick look at the will of Hugh Rice dated 1767. The executors were his wife, Gwen and his eldest daughter, Mary. It looks as if Mary was married to the ubiquitous Thomas Richards and they are both seen to sign off on image 2 that you mentioned.
 A surprise half way through is that Hugh Rice, Cleric, had a son, Hugh Rice, Cleric.
In the 1746 Indenture that names Jane Morgan (widow), and Edward Richards, Schoolmaster in a transaction involving Bryn Perfedd, the witness is Hugh Rice, Cleric. In the final accord Thomas Richards is a "Gent". The endorsement to this Indenture is made by Hugh Rice, Cleric.
 Witnesses to his will are David Williams, Edward Richards and Roderick Lewis, Cleric.
 In an Indenture of 1756 involving the same property, (Bryn Perfedd), the witnesses were David Richards of Ffosybleiddiaid, David Williams and a Thomas Davies of Wernvelen.
(Do we know who Thomas Davies was? Perhaps a link to the Rev.William Davies).
 The 1722 Indenture is the best indicator that we have that there was a Thomas Richards at Bryn Issaf at that time and we more or less placed him as the son of David Richards of Llandewi Brefi. Perhaps we can link William Davies, the next owner of Bryn Issaf to the Rev. Thomas Davies and Daniel, his brother, or to the mystery Thomas Davies of Wernvelen.
  Yes, it's good to be home again!
 

[despair]

I think the likelihood is that Thomas Davies is the brother in law/guardian in the 1749 will of Morgan Richards.He is a "clerk" according to that will and below

Release of the equity of redemption of the properties specified in Nos 230-1 of 30-1 May 1763, 1764, Aug. 1. 

Level
File 

Summary
1 John Morgan of p. Spytty Ystrad Meirig, co. Card., gent., only son and heir of Morgan Davies, late of p. Llanfihangel y Croyddyn, by Mary his wife. 2 Edward Richards of p. Spytty Ystrad Meirig, gent. Release of the equity of redemption of the properties specified in Nos 230-1 of 30-1 May 1763. Witnesses: Thomas Davies, clerk, of Wernfelen, and David Williams of Penygraig. 
 
Regards
Roger