James Miller born in County Antrim in 1839

[Matt1979]

I have been trying to trace a James Miller who was born in Northern Ireland (I am assuming County Antrim) in 1839.  James married Ann Bell in 1864 in Randalstown and they emigrated to Connecticut in 1882/83.  I found on a section of the 1851 Census that the only James Miller who was the same age was living in Carncastle, County Antrim, around 20 miles from Randalstown.

I think it is possible that this is the same James Miller - the marriage record gives his father's name and occupation as John Miller, farmer.  The James Miller on the 1851 Census also had a father called John who was a farmer, but this John Miller was deceased by 1851.  The Marriage record doesn't say that John Miller was deceased, although I am not sure if all Irish marriage records from this era stated whether a groom or bride's father was deceased.

As there are no other James Millers who are the same age, I think I have found the right person but of course I am not 100% sure.  What do you all think about this?  I am new to researching Irish censuses and I am aware that earlier censuses only survive in fragments. 

[iluleah]

With the  marriage record fathers name would have been asked for so unless he was asked if his father was alive or not it would  not be written unless already known in the church by the parish clerk

http://www.from-ireland.net/griffiths-primary-valuation/antrim/?searchterm=John+miller

[Matt1979]

Thanks for letting me know and for the link.  I was under the impression that they didn't always record whether a father was deceased.  Is there any way of establishing whether the James Miller in Carncastle in 1851 is the same person who married Ann Bell in Randalstown in 1864.  I have noticed how Irish records seem quite scarce, but I know the situation with the earlier censuses.

[iluleah]

Like anywhere else the only way is to research find more records and 'hope' that you can make connections by cross referencing the records you find. I often find it very useful to research the siblings of your ancestors  as that often help make connections, such as who were witnesses at marriages, who was visiting the house on census nights.

Lots of Irish records are still within the parish and there are often lots of people with the same names born around the same time.

1839 is pre civil registration so you are unable to even cross reference civil with parish
Randlestown is a lovely place
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/yourplaceandmine/antrim/rtown_viaduct.shtml
http://ireland.anglican.org/information/dioceses/parish/13220

Forgive me, forgot to welcome you to rootschat so welcome to rootschat

[iluleah]

"......................John Millar and his wife Jane Millar nee McGeough in the 1830's in Randalstown.
They were blessed with a son called James and on the 8th July 1864 James married a Ann Bell..............".

A website full of information and photographs, so maybe you can make contact and ask some questions with regards to records http://www.downmemorylane.me.uk/randalstown%20m1.htm

http://www.antrimtown.co.uk/Main%20Menu.htm

[Matt1979]

Like anywhere else the only way is to research find more records and 'hope' that you can make connections by cross referencing the records you find. I often find it very useful to research the siblings of your ancestors  as that often help make connections, such as who were witnesses at marriages, who was visiting the house on census nights.

Lots of Irish records are still within the parish and there are often lots of people with the same names born around the same time.

1839 is pre civil registration so you are unable to even cross reference civil with parish
Randlestown is a lovely place
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/yourplaceandmine/antrim/rtown_viaduct.shtml
http://ireland.anglican.org/information/dioceses/parish/13220

Forgive me, forgot to welcome you to rootschat so welcome to rootschat

Thanks for all the details and thanks for welcoming me  .  I think it might be quite difficult to find any relatives of James Miller, but at least the downmemorylane website could provide more information.

[Elwyn Soutter]

The name James Millar/Miller is very common in Co. Antrim. There’s 148 of them in the 1901 census.

I’d be careful about assuming that the James Miller you have found in Carncastle/Cairncastle is the same man who married in Randalstown. Most of the 1851 census of Co. Antrim was destroyed in 1922 and only a small fragment survives. (Probably less than 5%). Consequently the James in Carncastle could well have been just one of a hundred others of the same name in the county, whose details are lost. Unless you have some other evidence linking the Carncastle one to Randalstown, I’d be inclined to disregard it.

Regarding whether a father would be shown as deceased on a marriage certificate, in my experience, in Ireland they rarely bothered to record that information. You do occasionally see “dcd” but mostly you don’t. Just the father’s name whether alive or dead.  (Other jurisdictions eg Scotland, were meticulous about establishing whether parents were alive or not, but not so in Ireland).

What was James’ townland (address) on the 1864 marriage certificate? Was it Magherabeg? (I think I have a fairly recent photograph of the Miller farmhouse, taken in 2010, which I can send you if you want).

PRONI have this probate abstract:

The Will of John Millar late of Magherabeg County Antrim Farmer deceased who died 4 February 1877 at same place was proved at Belfast by the oath of Jane Millar of Magherabeg (Antrim) same County Widow the Executrix.

[Matt1979]

The name James Millar/Miller is very common in Co. Antrim. There’s 148 of them in the 1901 census.

I’d be careful about assuming that the James Miller you have found in Carncastle/Cairncastle is the same man who married in Randalstown. Most of the 1851 census of Co. Antrim was destroyed in 1922 and only a small fragment survives. (Probably less than 5%). Consequently the James in Carncastle could well have been just one of a hundred others of the same name in the county, whose details are lost. Unless you have some other evidence linking the Carncastle one to Randalstown, I’d be inclined to disregard it.

Regarding whether a father would be shown as deceased on a marriage certificate, in my experience, in Ireland they rarely bothered to record that information. You do occasionally see “dcd” but mostly you don’t. Just the father’s name whether alive or dead.  (Other jurisdictions eg Scotland, were meticulous about establishing whether parents were alive or not, but not so in Ireland).

What was James’ townland (address) on the 1864 marriage certificate? Was it Magherabeg? (I think I have a fairly recent photograph of the Miller farmhouse, taken in 2010, which I can send you if you want).

PRONI have this probate abstract:

The Will of John Millar late of Magherabeg County Antrim Farmer deceased who died 4 February 1877 at same place was proved at Belfast by the oath of Jane Millar of Magherabeg (Antrim) same County Widow the Executrix.

Hi Elwyn,

Thanks very much for all the details.  I was interested to see the reference to John Millar and the James Millar I have been searching for was the one from Magherabeg.  It seems possible that the John Millar who died in 1877 was his father, but I noticed the difference in spelling.  Normally, I have found many examples of both Millar and Miller in marriage indexes, so if this John Miller was James's father, then I am uncertain whether they would have misspelt his name.

I have been searching for people with the name Miller/Millar who married at Randalstown, but I have only found one other from around the same period James Miller was married.  I think it will prove difficult tying to find brothers or sisters of James Miller.

It is very interesting to hear about the photo of the farmhouse, I would like to see a copy, please.

Thanks, Matt.

[Matt1979]

"......................John Millar and his wife Jane Millar nee McGeough in the 1830's in Randalstown.
They were blessed with a son called James and on the 8th July 1864 James married a Ann Bell..............".

A website full of information and photographs, so maybe you can make contact and ask some questions with regards to records http://www.downmemorylane.me.uk/randalstown%20m1.htm

http://www.antrimtown.co.uk/Main%20Menu.htm

Sorry, I only just saw the information about John Miller marrying Jane McGeough - I will check out the section of the website right away - thanks very much for this.  It sounds like this is the same family, but I noticed the different spelling.  The date of the marriage is certainly correct.