Percy Platt - Illegitimate/Adopted Bolton 1898

[Waterloo24]

It was not probate sorry ... found it now.

Not very good at explaining but its on ancestry under

Manchester, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985 for Margaret Ann Thomas

Chadderton, St Matthew 1942 - 1947

I think I have found him and Margaret together in Kendal in 1901. If so he was 20 years older than her so probably was married ... could also explain why he was not named on Percy s Birth Certificate in 1898.

Southport and Kendal are pretty close :-) x

Thanks a million

Of course it makes sense- I just am erring on the side of caution.

It looks as though JBT may have been married to Lily Blake - online tree.
He seems to be in Stretford in 1881 and Southport in 1891.

Do you need details?

I'll look re probate too.

[heywood]

There is a Margaret Ann Thomas with husband Richard living in Chadderton, Oldham in census.
Looking at the couple and those burials at St Matthew's, I would say that she is not yours. They are both annotated with  941 which is presumably the plot number.

[Waterloo24]

Thanks Heywood .. any details as always would be greatly appreciated.

Cant find a marriage for Margaret and John anywhere or any trace of her in 1911.

John appears elusive also ( the is Thomas Bramall IN 1911) and 1 birth certificate says Bramall as the middle name, the other Bramwell :-(

Of course it makes sense- I just am erring on the side of caution.

It looks as though JBT may have been married to Lily Blake - online tree.
He seems to be in Stretford in 1881 and Southport in 1891.

Do you need details?

I'll look re probate too.

[heywood]

John Bramall Thomas marries Martha Hannah Blake in 1874-Chester.

1871 she is at home and is a Draper's assistant.
1881 she is known as Lily Thomas
1881 John B Thomas - Draper's assistant with wife Lily and child Harry B

Harry B in 1901 is lodging in Worcestershire - he is a Draper's assistant!

I have to go out now - will pick up later.

[Waterloo24]

Thanks so much .. I have found her and Harry in 1911 when John was in Bolton ... says she is married and has been for 37 years .. poor thing :-( x

John Bramall Thomas marries Martha Hannah Blake in 1874-Chester.

1871 she is at home and is a Draper's assistant.
1881 she is known as Lily Thomas
1881 John B Thomas - Draper's assistant with wife Lily and child Harry B

Harry B in 1901 is lodging in Worcestershire - he is a Draper's assistant!

I have to go out now - will pick up later.

[Waterloo24]

Just putting down my thoughts (in an attempt to clear my brain fog)

I know that Thomas Percy Platt was born 1898 to Margaret Ann Platt at 44 Silverwell Lane – no father listed. Thomas Percy (or Percy as he was known)  is still there on the 1901 census but Margaret is not. He is a boarder aged 2 living with Mary Hughes

The Brothers I have been looking for are :
Frederick Thomas 22nd July 1902
Father John Bramwell Thomas Drapers Assistant
Mother Margaret Ann Thomas Formerly Platt
4 Grass? Class?  Street Kendal

John Percy Thomas 16th October 1905
Father John Bramwell Thomas Drapers Assistant
Mother Margaret Ann Thomas Formerly Platt
32 Union Street Kendal

I have found Margaret A Thomas and John B Thomas in Kendal on the 1901 census .I am confident this is them as John B Thomas is listed as a Drapers Assistant. He is listed as 49 years old and she 29 years old giving me a birth year of around 1872. Her town of birth is given as Chorley Lancashire. This is the only census record I have of Margaret.

Heywood kindly researched John Bramall Thomas for me and he was married and a Drapers Assistant. I followed his wife through the census records and whilst she is not living with John she still states herself as married in 1911.

In 1911 John is living with all 3 boys with Mary Hughes back at Silverwell Lane in Bolton under the name Thomas Bramall.

His son Henry Bramall Thomas married in 1926 – he states his father is deceased (may or may not be the case) but I can’t find a death record.

I cannot find a marriage anywhere for Margaret and John (as implied on the birth certificates) so am suspecting they never married.

I know Margaret died in an asylum around 1945-50. I have found a possible death Margaret Ann Thomas who died in 1945 aged 63 ...  she died at 449 Rochdale Road,  Oldham which at first glance seems to be an asylum / hospital / poorhouse. I am thinking of risking ordering this death certificate to see what it says.

I have searched and searched for Margaret in 1911 and just cannot find her. I did an initial search and have found a MAT in Winwick Asylum who is the right age – she is stated as previously a domestic Servant from Bolton. This is the closest match I can find anywhere so maybe it’s her.
It says she has been a lunatic since the age of 25 which would have been around the time my grandad was born.

I have read up on asylums around this time and sadly it appears reasons women were committed were Post Natal Depression, adultery and syphilis (all possible in Margaret’s case. But to be in institutions for the rest of her life ??

Not sure where to go from here, can I get asylum records ?  … any help really appreciated.

[heywood]

Hello again,

See reply 109 re the Margaret Ann Thomas who died in the hospital.  She is not yours. Don't buy the certificate 

Heywood

[heywood]

I gave searched for Margaret over the days with no joy.
She may have stayed with John.
She may have left him and reverted to the Platt name.
She may have gone to live with someone else!

A while ago, you were looking at a John Platt / Doris marriage?

Was Percy's brother definitely a Platt?  I can't see anything definite for the Thomas boys.

I also saw the one in Winwick but the occupation is questionable.

[Waterloo24]

Thanks Heywood

Just seen post 109 .. thanks for that :-)

Mum always thought they were Platt but it now appears they were Thomas (as the birth certificates). Think mum just assumed that as she was told they were full brothers that they were Platt as well.

I have spoken to dad about his visit to Bolton with mum to tell Percy s brother he had died. Dad said it was John. Doris's name is mums recollection ... dad has no idea!

So I think John Thomas married Doris but can't find a record.

Mum said the other brother was insane. She said he thew himself in front of a train ... but that again may be totally wrong. I know this happened to an uncle on her side ( we have a lot of insanity in our family) and wonder if she was confused. Cant find anything on him either.

If I could just find Margaret in 1891 I could see if she was a domestic servant but she is a mystery ... can't even see her birth in Chorley. There is a Margaret Ann Platt in Preston but that's not her :-(

I gave searched for Margaret over the days with no joy.
She may have stayed with John.
She may have left him and reverted to the Platt name.
She may have gone to live with someone else!

A while ago, you were looking at a John Platt / Doris marriage?

Was Percy's brother definitely a Platt?  I can't see anything definite for the Thomas boys.

I also saw the one in Winwick but the occupation is questionable.