LMA Lookup Request (Records are not online)

[amypatricia1]

Hi there,

I live in Australia so I'm unable to attend the LMA personally. As I'm sure you all know, it is very expensive to have an employee of the Archives to do lookups for you, and so I was wondering if anyone on here would be willing to help?

I have looked at the LMA catalogue and know which records I wish to search, both on microfilm. I'm trying to find more info on my great-great grandfather's family, from Carshalton Children's Infirmary admission/discharge registers.

I would appreciate any response and thank you for your time.

Amy.

[rosie17]

HI  Maybe if you post names and dates of the family rootschatters  will be able to help
Try and give as much information you know where they were living etc 

[amypatricia1]

Hi there, thanks for your response, I wasn't sure if there was much point posting too much detail until someone volunteered to assist, but I guess there's no harm in it.

The two record sets I wish to have looked at are:
1. Admission and Discharge Register of the Children's Infirmary, Carshalton: Arranged Alphabetically
Reference Code: BBG/628/003
Site Location: London Metropolitan Archives
Level of Description: File
Date: 1909 - 1934
Format: Please use microfilm
Microfilm Reference: X114/103
Classification: Local Authorities, London Local Authorities
Acess restrictions: Available for general access
Physical condition: At risk.


2. Register of Children Sent to Carshalton Children's Infirmary
Reference Code: STPBG/192
From Collection: Saint Pancras Board of Guardians
Site Location: London Metropolitan Archives
Level of Description: File
Date: 1910 Jan - 1917 Dec
Extent: 1 volume
Format: Please use microfilm
Microfilm reference: X098/440
Other formats: Please use microfilm
Classification: Local authorities, London local authorities
Physical condition: Fit


Information on the person I am looking for in the records:
Name: George Brian (or Bryant)
Born: Circa February 1910
Lived in: London's East (St George in the East, Bethnal Green, etc.)
Father: Cornelius Brian/Bryant
Father Occupation: Waterside/Dock Labourer
Mother: Ellen Rebecca (maiden name "Crouch")

I have Poor Law records which say that George was sent to Carshalton Infirmary on 6th April 1910.

His parents were in St George in the East workhouse in June 1910 when George was supposedly 4 months old.

I would be thrilled for any help with this.

Kind regards,

Amy.

[Bookbox]

The references you have cited above (presumably prompted by the Hospital Records Database) relate to the Bermondsey Board of Guardians (BBG) and the St Pancras Board of Guardians (STPBG). But if the parents were in the St George in the East workhouse, it is unlikely that either of those series will be relevant, because the family will probably have been chargeable instead to the Stepney Union (STBG).

So there may be Stepney records at LMA that will help. There are also separate hospital records for Carshalton (later Queen Mary's), held in the St George's Hospital series (H68/SG).

For 1910, access may be an issue. There is a 100-year closure rule for hospital records at LMA (unless they are classified as poor law records). For privacy reasons, any period of closure relates to the date of the last entry in the relevant volume, which may be several years after the date you are interested in. In the event of access not being available, archives staff may be able to extract the relevant records for you, but this cannot be done by anyone visiting the archive on your behalf, and it is liable to LMA's normal research charge.

Would you like to tell us exactly which poor law records you already hold, and what further information you are hoping to find out?

[amypatricia1]

Hi there,

It's all very confusing to me, not being from England makes it even more difficult.

The parents had been in the Bethnal Green workhouse but were removed to St George in the East and at the time of their interview at St Geo East workhouse, it sounded like the child George had only just been taken out of Carshalton.

I'm trying to find out George's birth date and where he was born and why he was sent to Carshalton.

[Bookbox]

The parents had been in the Bethnal Green workhouse but were removed to St George in the East and at the time of their interview at St Geo East workhouse, it sounded like the child George had only just been taken out of Carshalton.

To point you in the right direction for further research, it would be helpful to know exactly what the poor law records say.

With the information you've now provided, I found the removal order for Cornelius BRIEN 28, Ellen 24, Emma 2 and George 4 mo from Bethnal Green workhouse to St George in the East, order dated 3 June 1910. For anyone else looking, this in BEBG/273/002, in the indexed section of poor law records on Ancestry (London, England, Selected Poor Law Removal and Settlement Records, 1828-1930).

But I'm struggling to find the settlement examination at the workhouse. If you found it online, please provide enough information (names, date, union, and vol/image refs if unindexed) for those who have access to find it online. If it is not online, please transcribe its contents here. If you'd prefer not to, you're welcome to send me a PM.

In any event, the family were apparently chargeable to St George in the East. So in order to pursue this further you will need to have someone search the records of the Stepney Union (STBG) at LMA.

One option is to email LMA with all the information that you have, tell them what you are trying to find out, and ask them to provide exact references for the other resources they hold that might help you. That sort of general enquiry is answered free of charge. You will then be in a better position to ask for lookups from RootsChatters. 

[amypatricia1]

The parents had been in the Bethnal Green workhouse but were removed to St George in the East and at the time of their interview at St Geo East workhouse, it sounded like the child George had only just been taken out of Carshalton.

To point you in the right direction for further research, it would be helpful to know exactly what the poor law records say.

With the information you've now provided, I found the removal order for Cornelius BRIEN 28, Ellen 24, Emma 2 and George 4 mo from Bethnal Green workhouse to St George in the East, order dated 3 June 1910. For anyone else looking, this in BEBG/273/002, in the indexed section of poor law records on Ancestry (London, England, Selected Poor Law Removal and Settlement Records, 1828-1930).

But I'm struggling to find the settlement examination at the workhouse. If you found it online, please provide enough information (names, date, union, and vol/image refs if unindexed) for those who have access to find it online. If it is not online, please transcribe its contents here. If you'd prefer not to, you're welcome to send me a PM.

In any event, the family were apparently chargeable to St George in the East. So in order to pursue this further you will need to have someone search the records of the Stepney Union (STBG) at LMA.

One option is to email LMA with all the information that you have, tell them what you are trying to find out, and ask them to provide exact references for the other resources they hold that might help you. That sort of general enquiry is answered free of charge. You will then be in a better position to ask for lookups from RootsChatters. 

Hi Bookbox,
Thanks so much for all the info and advice.
The settlement papers were found on Ancestry. They are not indexed and I don't have a subscription at the moment so I can't tell you the vol/image refs, but I wrote down how I found them when I searched initially - they can be found under "London, England; Poor Law and Board of Guardian Records, 1430-1930; Tower Hamlets > Stepney > Settlement Papers > Orders of Removal, Inwards, 1910. Cornelius, Ellen, Emma and George can be found on page 117 and there are two or three pages on them. I also saved the images.

I think they were admitted from Bethnal Green workhouse... There are a lot of different addresses and dates. It says "Had relief from 14 Oct 1909 to March 1910 and child sent to Carshalton Infirmary from 6 April to date" ... The date at time of interview was June 1910.. If the child had been sent to Carshalton months before his parents interview and Settlement at St George in the East/Stepney, wouldn't this mean the child would be listed on admission registers from the previous workhouse and union? And if so, which union/board of guardians records would I need to look at (for Bethnal Green)?

The Stepney Board of Guardians records don't appear to mention Carshalton Children's Infirmary? http://search.lma.gov.uk/scripts/mwimain.dll/144/LMA_OPAC/web_detail/REFD+STBG?SESSIONSEARCH

I would appreciate your input as you seem to know a lot about this subject, and as you can probably tell, I am relatively clueless. However if you don't wish to participate any further I will follow your suggestion and email the LMA to see if I can get away with a free enquiry, hopefully they can point me in the right direction and I can request a look-up from someone when I have more solid information. I'm sorry I couldn't respond earlier, life gets very hectic sometimes.

I would be interested to hear back from any other interested parties also.

Happy New Year everyone.

Amy.

[Bookbox]

Happy New Year to you too, and I've sent you a PM.