Help with William BROWN Convict

[majm]

Hi,

So may I suggest that a marriage 4 Nov 1843 and a marriage 4 Dec 1843 most likely means that there's TWO couples.  And that's why I am suggesting you order the images of the original parish registers to have a good look at both those two different sets of records.   The images have the signatures for the bride and the groom and their witnesses.   Even if they needed to make their X mark rather than autograph, these marks can be compared.

The official transcript AND the NSW BDM issued document will NOT have the images.  Both these documents are TYPED up, based on NSW BDM records only.

ADD
As posted earlier
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZD-LH4

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZS-4B7


Cheers,  JM

[Dundee]

The William BROWN who was transported on the Mermaid was tried at the Nottingham summer assizes on 8 August 1829.

His indent states that he was aged 20 and was a native of (that is "born in") Nottingham.  He could not read or write, was a Protestant, married with one child, occupation was bobbin machine maker.  He was sentenced to life for stealing silk and the criminal registers show that he was convicted of housebreaking and sentenced to death which was commuted to transportation for life.  He was transferred to the prison hulk 'Retribution' and disposed of to NSW.  The hulk registers give his age as 19.

I cannot find evidence of his pardon, but usually a lifer had to serve at least 15 years - it really depended on their behaviour and some were pardoned early.  I see that the BROWN/WATSON marriage does not include a notation about requiring permission to marry.

The TOL passport (1839) would be worth looking at.  Although they don't contain a lot of info, they do give an explanation of why the convict needed to move outside their designated area and where they were going to.  It might provide a clue as to whether or not this man is your William.  A copy can be ordered via State Archives:

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=65

If you can get to the State Archives the Colonial Secretary's correspondence might also provide info.  Microfilm copies are also kept at many State libraries.

http://guides.sl.nsw.gov.au/content.php?pid=445387&sid=3774376

Debra 

[Akira01000]

Hi,

So may I suggest that a marriage 4 Nov 1843 and a marriage 4 Dec 1843 most likely means that there's TWO couples.  And that's why I am suggesting you order the images of the original parish registers to have a good look at both those two different sets of records.   The images have the signatures for the bride and the groom and their witnesses.   Even if they needed to make their X mark rather than autograph, these marks can be compared.

The official transcript AND the NSW BDM issued document will NOT have the images.  Both these documents are TYPED up, based on NSW BDM records only.

ADD
As posted earlier
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZD-LH4

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZS-4B7


Cheers,  JM

Hi JM,

I have ordered the Nov image currently and will order the december one next, are you supposed to recieve an email confirmation from the order?

Cheers
Akira

[majm]

  You can order up to FIVE items in the one order.  It can take a day or two to receive an acknowledgement.

.................................

The funeral of the late Mr William BROWN, of Dixon St, will take place at the Independent Cemetery, Necropolis…… Funeral train …. At 2.30.    Walter Stewart, Undertaker….
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13756876 SMH 23 Jan 1890.

I have searched TROVE, but not found any In Memoriam notices in Jan 1891 to help advance the search. 


.......................

Steerage passengers arriving on William, (brig, Thom) from Launceston (arrived 20th having sailed out of Launceston 14th Dec)  W WATSON, …. William BROWN. 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2549634 Sydney Gaz 21 Dec 1839.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31727085 Aust Chronicle 24 Dec 1839

............................

   Here’s a Miss Matilda WATSON who became a  Mrs Lewis RUTLEDGE …..
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31726458 Aust Chronicle 20 Sept 1839

   There’s also a Matilda WATSON, born in the colony and found on general musters with her parents William and Eliza(beth) who arrived on the Alexander/Fortune 20 Aug 1806 with his wife who came free.  By Nov 1828, Matilda, and her parents were in Cambridge St, (The Rocks), William was a barber.  Matilda was aged 20, her father aged 63, and her mum aged 53.   William had received an absolute pardon. 

22 Nov 1830, Scots Church Presbyterian Sydney, by Banns, by Rev John McGARVIE, with consent of All parties.  Lewis Routledge aged 29, a Bachelor, of Sydney (signed) and Matilda Watson, aged 22, Spinster, of Sydney (signed) witnesses  John Hodge of Sydney (signed) and Jane Dades of Sydney (signed)


29 June 1829
 NSW Chaplain, Rev W Cowper, married William ALLEN, Bachelor of St Philips Parish, Sydney, a shoemaker (signed) and Sarah PAWLEY, a Spinster, of St Philips Parish, Sydney, (X mark) by Banns with consent of parent.  Witnesses ….. John FINNIS of Sydney (signed) and Matilda WATSON of Sydney (signed)


Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Miss Matilda WATSON who became a  Mrs Lewis RUTLEDGE …..
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31726458 Aust Chronicle 20 Sept 1839

And 8 Nov 1830
Rev Richard Hill, St James, C of E married Henry John CAMROUX aged 23, a bachelor of Sydney, a Mariner (signed) and Sarah Garner, 25, a spinster, (signed)  and Witnesses were Lewis ROUTLEDGE (signed) and Matilda WATSON (signed)

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

136/1890 
William BROWN
22 Jan 1890, at Sydney Hospital, NSW
Painter, Male, 80- years
Born London, England,
In the Colonies : 60 years in NSW
Informant  H D Russell, Secretary, Sydney Hospital.
Buried 23 Jan 1890,  Independent Cemetery, Rookwood.   W J Cuthbert, Presbyterian.
W Stewart, undertaker.   John Griffiths,  J E McKew, witnesses.

Sept 1828
William BROWN aged 21, Born London, Protestant, Reads and Writes, Seaman,
Robbing Warehouse, convicted 22 June 1826, London. 
Two previous convictions
Transported per Harcourt 5
Arrived Sydney 8 Sept 1828 and assigned to Thomas HYNDES. 
 (Convict Indents NSWSRO Vol 4/4013, Countess of Harcourt, Entry No. 16)

 ADD
And not to be confused with the William BROWN, aged 25, born Manchester, Protestant Read and Write, transported Countess of Harcourt 5…. Who was assigned to Catherine Hunt, at Patricks Plains.   That chap was a brother of John Brown, also transported Countess of Harcourt 5.
 

Cheers,  JM

[Akira01000]

136/1890 
William BROWN
22 Jan 1890, at Sydney Hospital, NSW
Painter, Male, 80- years
Born London, England,
In the Colonies : 60 years in NSW
Informant  H D Russell, Secretary, Sydney Hospital.
Buried 23 Jan 1890,  Independent Cemetery, Rookwood.   W J Cuthbert, Presbyterian.
W Stewart, undertaker.   John Griffiths,  J E McKew, witnesses.

Sept 1828
William BROWN aged 21, Born London, Protestant, Reads and Writes, Seaman,
Robbing Warehouse, convicted 22 June 1826, London. 
Two previous convictions
Transported per Harcourt 5
Arrived Sydney 8 Sept 1828 and assigned to Thomas HYNDES. 
 (Convict Indents NSWSRO Vol 4/4013, Countess of Harcourt, Entry No. 16)

 ADD
And not to be confused with the William BROWN, aged 25, born Manchester, Protestant Read and Write, transported Countess of Harcourt 5…. Who was assigned to Catherine Hunt, at Patricks Plains.   That chap was a brother of John Brown, also transported Countess of Harcourt 5.
 

Cheers,  JM

Hi JM,

Hmm didnt see that one that matches better than the other record, especially with the details of the death certificate, now aligning london rather than derbyshire.

I saw the 'john brown' william on countess of harcourt and disgarded.

And two previous convictions! For the potential william brown....

So Thomas Hyndes who is he? And where is he located?

Cheers
Akira

[majm]

   Will get back to Thomas Hyndes shortly...  currently working to eliminate some of the Matilda WATSON lasses...

Re Mrs ROUTLEDGE, (Matilda WATSON)
Louis ROUTLEDGE born 21 Aug 1831, baptised 20 May 1832, son of Louis ROUTLEDGE, Master Mariner and Matilda ROUTLEDGE. Rev William Cowper, St Philips C of E parish register.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

http://www.latrobe.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/232734/Keeping-Up-With-The-McNamaras.pdf 

Perhaps Thomas HINDS .... and variations in spelling.       A barber  at The Rocks ....

Cheers,  JM