Help with William BROWN Convict

[Akira01000]

Hi All,

Thanks for your help so far really appreciate it you have done what I did in 5 years in 5 minutes.

I'm even surprised in some of the gems and new information you have found.

I've started at trying to summarise the information so far as this post is quite large, to see if there is something that links together.

Cheers
Akira

[Neil Todd]

Hi, Have you been able to go through all the Old Bailey Records of William Brown's sentenced in that period. It should lead to a more positive identification of the correct individual.

Neil

[Akira01000]

Hi, Have you been able to go through all the Old Bailey Records of William Brown's sentenced in that period. It should lead to a more positive identification of the correct individual.

Neil

Hi Neil,

I was just going over that now, I can't find a William Brown that matches this record http://www.convictrecords.com.au/convicts/brown/william/99485

This guys a tough nut to crack, I have been googling to no avail to track down some more clearer and definitive proof.

As derbyshire isnt that far from nottinghamshire the general vicinity prior to arrival matches ever so slightly, I just really want to know what he did it has me curious.

Cheers
Akira

[Neil Todd]

I came across one of William Brown in company with another stole a pair of shoes, some nails and couple of Pots? He was seventeen years old in 1826 (b circa 1809) and found guilty, transported for seven years. Cannot find what month (whoops) 22nd June as yet nor ship but will continue to look.

Neil

[Akira01000]

I came across one of William Brown in company with another stole a pair of shoes, some nails and couple of Pots? He was seventeen years old in 1826 (b circa 1809) and found guilty, transported for seven years. Cannot find what month (whoops) 22nd June as yet nor ship but will continue to look.

Neil

Hi Neil,

This might help

William Brown
Estimated Birth Year: 1809

Conviction Date: 6 Aug 1829
Conviction Place: Nottingham assizes

Transportation Date: 5 Dec 1829
Transportation Place: Sheerness, Kent

Vessel: Mermaid
Ship Master: William Henniker
Surgeon: James Gilchrist
Built: In Calcutta 1817
Class: A
Div: 1
Tonnage: 472

Select   Surname   Firstname   Alias    Vessel   Year   No   Date   RecordType   Citation   Remarks   
   
BROWN   William   -   Mermaid    1830   39/398   6 Dec 1839   Ticket of Leave Passport    [4/4239; Reel 967]   Ticket of Leave 39/1433; On the recommendation of Parramatta Bench   
   
BROWN   William       Mermaid    1830   39/1433       Ticket of Leave   [4/4131; Reel 933]   District: Parramatta; Tried: Notts ass

Just put it together from a number of sources just found, feel were getting closer.

[Akira01000]

Hi Neil,

A couple of questions if tried/convicted at nottingham would he be sent to the old bailey? Or is it the record of the crime?

As this particular william brown (mermaid 1830) was sentenced to life it must have been pretty bad right?

Cheers
Akira

[majm]

Thanks for the official transcript for William BROWN’s death and for Matilda BROWN’s death and for their marriage.

Here's my reading of those transcripts.

136/1890 
William BROWN
22 Jan 1890, at Sydney Hospital, NSW
Painter, Male, 80- years
Born London, England,
In the Colonies : 60 years in NSW

Father:  William Brown, a blacksmith,  Mother : Emma (her maiden name not stated)

Married Sydney at age 30 to Matilda WATSON.   
Children of the Marriage :   
Mary J 41; Sarah 39;  Matilda 37;  Rebecca 28;   William 45;   Nathaniel 18;  Living.
3 Males, 2 Females deceased

Informant  H D Russell, Secretary, Sydney Hospital.

Buried 23 Jan 1890,  Independent Cemetery, Rookwood.   W J Cuthbert, Presbyterian.
W Stewart, undertaker.   John Griffiths,  J E McKew, witnesses.

-------------------------------------------------

1133 / 1887

Matilda BROWN
21 July 1887  at Dixon Street, Sydney NSW
Female, 61 years of age
Born Ireland, about 60 years in NSW

Father (given name and occupation not stated)  Watson,  Mother (details not stated)

Married Sydney at age 14 to William BROWN

Children of the Marriage ….. not listed on this particular transcription.

Informant  C LEWIS, a Friend, Minister of “Elim”  Elizabeth Street
Inquest unnecessary as per Henry Shiell, Coroner

Buried 23 July 1887, Congregational Cemetery, Rookwood.   
Undertaker   Henry Mason Junior,     Witnesses :  John Shepherd,  Henry Mason.

----------------------------------------

ECR Marriage  1843 Vol 74B  Line 3818
Presbyterian Marriages, St Andrew Parish, County of Cumberland NSW by Rev John McGarvie according to Presbyterian rites.
4 December 1843 at Sydney, by Banns

William BROWN, a bachelor of Sydney
Matilda WATSON, a Spinster, of Sydney, and a member of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland

Witnesses :   Margaret Watson of Sydney,  George Watson of Sydney,  John Leary (his X mark) of Sydney

COMMENT from JM :  Do you have a copy of the 4 November 1843 marriage for a William BROWN and a Matilda WATSON ?   I mentioned that one earlier on this thread.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Hi there,

Just had a quick look back on the earlier thread.
 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=568668.0

May I suggest that you have a read through the NSW SRO's BRIEF guides re BDM records.  NSW BDM's head office does NOT hold the original registers.  These are filmed, and that filmed version is what NSW BDM uses.    May I suggest you seriously consider obtaining (freely available) the family search version of the images of the parish registers.   

I am attaching a pdf that gives the 2006 version of NSW BDM's background to the organisation.  (2006 was 150th anniversary year of the commencement of the BDM Registrar General's Office).

The Sydney Gazette of 15 September 1810 has Gov Lachlan Macquarie's General Orders re the recording of baptisms and burials in NSW.   It ordered that records  of baptisms and burials (and later marriages were added to the general orders re this matter) were to be transmitted to the NSW CHAPLAINS.   So regardless of the denomination of the ceremony, the event was meant to ALSO be recorded in the NSW Chaplains records.    Effectively the C of E's St Phillips parish register became from 1810 "THE REGISTRY" .... So, for example a Wesleyan baptism in an outlying district would be recorded in that Wesleyan register.  In turn, a record of that would be TRANSMITTED to the local C of E, and in turn that too would be TRANSMITTED to the NSW Chaplains.     Sometimes there's evidence at the NSW BDM index of FOUR or FIVE transmissions of the one event.  Othertimes, there's NO evidence at all at the index.   

I have already posted several of the links but here they are again 
NSW BDM State Records Office BRIEF guides re BDM
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-2/short-guide-2  (Click on each heading .... baptism, marriage, death for further info)

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/volumes-1-123-1/volumes-1-123

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/628068 Sydney Gazette 15 Sept 1810, General Orders re Baptisms and Burials .....

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=685720.0 (how to get freely available images of NSW baptisms, marriages, burials from the pre civil registration era)


Cheers,  JM

[Akira01000]

COMMENT from JM :  Do you have a copy of the 4 November 1843 marriage for a William BROWN and a Matilda WATSON ?   I mentioned that one earlier on this thread.

Cheers,  JM

Hi JM,

I do but its in my records somewhere, havent been able to find it after having a look last night.

Cheers
Akira