Nobbs/Bird in Kingston Surrey, Name Change/Adoption?

[howdee]

After years of looking into my Nobbs family it came to light that my great grandfather William Nobbs, had a second family. I'm sure William was not the biological father to them all but he may be to some of them. All of the children were registered as Bird, their mother's married name but later took up the name Nobbs, I don't know if the name change was official but as they married as Nobbs's I assume it was. I have found plenty of records going forward and have been in touch with a descendant who's mother has some knowledge that Bird or Byrd was linked to them but no further info. I also found what could be the mother of the children's past, Mary A. Bird, possibly born Mary A. Prior, in Hampshire, supported by census records. In 1891 Mary is a servant at Sandhurst along with a George Bird. George Bird and Mary Ann Prior married in Kingston in 1892.

The 1911 Census shows my gt grandfather and the Bird family living together in West Molesey:

William Nobbs 59 Widower. Head.
Mary Bird 49 Married. Housekeeper.
Sidney Bird 19
Gladis Bird 11
Ella Bird 9
Irene Bird 7
Esther Bird 4
Albert Edward Bird 3

All described as son/daughter

Later they were living in Linden Rd, Hampton, close to the known Nobbs family.

Albert Edward's birth cert gives no father's name.

In 1901 gt grandfather, William Nobbs is living with his known children, he was widowed in 1898.

The Bird family have not been found in the 1901 census.

Mary Bird died in 1912 and some of the children remained with William Nobbs at Linden Rd Hampton until his death in 1930. My father lived only two doors away as a child so must have known them, sadly he's long gone.

Any help in finding out more about the family would be much appreciated. I wonder if Mary Bird was still married "as stated on census", what happened to George Bird, when did William and Mary get together, were any of Mary's children fathered by William. I thought Albert Edward Bird's birth cert would help but it didn't, conclusively, Where were the Bird family in 1901, anything.

I can't find any ref to the Bird family in 1901 census.

Thanks for reading this which only came to light last year while looking at informant of William's death, Annie Parker, daughter. It's now beyond me so hope someone can help.

TTFN

Howard

[louisa maud]

Might I suggest that as Mary  stated on 1911,  married  20 years. this was her years married to George Bird, he might well have been still alive,  she is shown as housekeeper to William Nobbs, perhaps she never married William but lived as man and wife after initially being his housekeeper, the children I would think of as being George's, the fact the Edward doesn't have a father showing could mean he might have  belonged  to William, perhaps the children saw him as a father figure and was happy to stay with him after Mary died
It might mean you will have to purchase more certificates, Gladis/Gladys might be a good one to start with, nearer the census date
At the moment can't find Mary Bird or Gladys on 1901

regards

Louisa Maud

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
There is a christening for Mabel Gladys Bird at East Molesey St Mary
3.6.1900 Mabel Gladys to Mary Bird 4 Park Road
Other children just to Mary
Ella 28.6.1903 and Irene Millicent same date.Born 25.10.1901 and 29.3.1903 no specific address
To George and Mary Ann  at East Molesey
Amy Kathleen,Ethel Mary(born 1895) and Sydney James 21.4.1895.carman East Molesey
Amy Kathleen born 1893 on 1911 census as a servant.
So it looks like Mary Bird was with your William Nobbs by 1900.

Ciderdrinker

[howdee]

Hi Louisa Maud

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have the same thoughts as you but nothing is confirmed, given the gap between the first child "Sidney" and the rest, it could indicate that Mary's husband was not around for quite sometime, indications are that Mary was still married and it's likely that she was in a relationship with my William. I don't know how to check for adoptions or name changes, though I know they were often very informal in those days. I may buy another birth cert but don't want to buy them all, Gladys may be a good start as she is the first born after the long gap, Sidney is obviously a formal Bird so may get that to confirm fathers name. No they don't appear in the 1901 census unfortunately neither does Mary and husband in the electoral rolls that have been transcribed to Ancestry but maybe they show up somewhere that I can't access. I have found that cleverer people than me sometimes come up with something I've missed. Any further thoughts welcome.

Howard

[ciderdrinker]

Marriage for Ethel Mary Bird age 22 17.7.1918 at East Molesey to Phillip Charles Parker age 19 artist s of Charles Parker munition worker gives her father as George Bird Butler.
Witnesses Mary A Bird and Kate Parker
Amy K Bird marries Mar 1920 Alfred Parker at Kingston

Ciderdrinker

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
Could you give us the age and birthplace of that George Bird you found on the 1891 census?
Have you got that marriage cert for 1892 at Richmond?
It's difficult to try and trace him without some idea of age.
Ciderdrinker

[KGarrad]

All of the children were registered as Bird, their mother's married name but later took up the name Nobbs, I don't know if the name change was official but as they married as Nobbs's I assume it was.

Under the laws of England & Wales, a person can call themselves anything they like!
Just as it's not done for fraud or deception.

True - you can pay a lot of money to get a Deed Poll, but it's just not necessary.

[louisa maud]

I agree with Garrard, I have in my own family a woman who was  married and within a few years was with another man,(first one still alive) had at least 10 children with the second man, I have never found a marriage for the second man in her life,   she did go on to marry another man years later in her married name, not what she had been known as for over 20 years, even 2 of her children  born of completely different man took the same name as the other 10,

I think this family took up the surname of Nobbs because he treated them as his children, we assume, perhaps the older ones chose not to as they would have known he wasn't their father.

1911 she states only 1 child deceased having had 9, no doubt you have noted this as you have already quoted 1911

Louisa Maud

[louisa maud]

Ciderdrinker
1891
RG12/894 FOLIO 44 PAGE 2/3
Mary Porter aged 22, born Hampshire but later shown as Basingstoke
George Bird 20, his age difficult to read as crossed through, born Sandhurst

Louisa Maud
PS The only birth that might fit in for George is
1869 March qtr WINDSOR, SANDHURST is in WINDSOR registration district