The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again

[deb usa]

Hi Ruskie

Good advice for nesta ... 

I have searched and searched for Granny Shepard's death registration to no avail.

Can you or anyone else spot it! She was buried Nov 1851 ... I can't believe that Mary Ward and her mother, Mary Shepard, don't have their death's registered!

I have been on the hunt for Nathaniel White ...there is an IGI for him along with siblings...all children of Charles and Sarah. I was hoping that someone in Nat's diary may have been relatives.
I wonder if  noting the names he discusses may be worth while? eg: There are a few Thomas people  (Sarah and Eliza otherwise Ann and a Thomas or James) all living at 22 James Street ...who are they?
I found a Sarah And Eliza Thomas living in St Pancras ..both dress makers. I need to find the info.

Also a coincidence: Nathaniel White, possible father of NB, was from Watford, Hertfordshire. Nathaniel Bryceson’s wife Sarah Clark was bc 1826, Barnet Herts. In 1851 she is living in Finsbury, Islington as a servant. Another servant in the household is Maria Long b Ware Herts. (both 25). Maria Long is a witness to NB and Sarah’s marriage. Can we find  Hertford connections?

IGI for Nathaniel White:
Oh by the way I did find a James White with wife, Jane living in  John’s st, Stepney in 1841. He’s 60 (bc 1781), not born in county and is a j (journeyman) Carpenter. Nathaniel White was a chair maker on the censuses and Cabinet maker according to Nat's marriage to Sarah Clark. Could James be his brother?

All children of Charles and Sarah chr. St Mary's, Watford, Hertford:
Charles White 30 June 1782
William White 30 June 1782
Thomas Truelove White 7 March 1784
Nathan... White 3 June 1785
Sarah White 4 March 1787
There is a James White chr. April 1780 in the right place s/o Charles ... no mother mentioned

deb

[Ruskie]

You are the best Deb. 
Great thinking and great finds. It all sounds very feasible.

I'll have a look for Granny Shephard's death registration, though if you can't find a likely one, I'm not sure I can. Odd though that I seem to remember that we found one ....

[deb usa]

Please find Granny Shepard ... It's so weird that I can't see her.

I searched Mary Shep*d/ She*d and then just the surname. I even went back to check the year of burial just in case.

Maybe I'm just not seeing it. 

[nestagj]

Hello

Have phoned the two Registrars Offices - one was very helpful; the other one not so much.

1.   Westminster - which is where the Marylebone Registers are held.  If we write to them with as much details as we can they will do a search of their registers for us.   We need to enclose a cheque or Postal Order for £10 and a SAE they will return the payment to us if we cannot find it.  Very helpful

2.   Camden which is where the Holborn Registers are held.  They tried by referring me to FindMyPast as they did not have any registers that early.   I said that the National Archive said that they had them.  He finally said if we write to them with as much information as we can they will do a search for us - they charge £10 for the search and £10 for the cert.  They will refund the certificate charge if they cannot find anything - he did not have much idea - kepat having to ask.

I think that maybe the best thing would be to try Westminster first.

N
 

[Ruskie]

Nesta, it is SO good of you to go to all that trouble. 

Nathaniel's Diary was acquired by and is held at Westminster Archives. The staff there are very helpful. Mongibello is a volunteer there and he has already looked for Mary's death for us. He was unable to find it, so ordered it from the GRO and it was not our Mary. However I think he looked only for the Mary Ward death registered in St James 1/113 (this one died on 8 Dec after our Mary had been buried). I am unsure if he did a general search. I would not be surprised if the person you spoke to at Westminster knew exactly who you were searching for. 

Mary's mother Granny Shepard was buried in St Pancras in 1851. Her father John was buried in St Pancras Parish Chapel (Borough of Camden). Sadly I would put money on Camden to hold Mary's death certificate (if anyone has it  ), even though Mary was buried in St Anne Soho not St Pancras. I may be wrong of course. Does not inspire confidence when the person you talk to doesn't know the answers to your questions either. Also makes me wonder how thorough a search they will do .... wonder if any rootschatters live near Camden. 

Lets wait to see what others think ... Perhaps we could ask Mongibello to check again? 

Like Deb I have not been able to find Granny Shepard's death registration either. Strange. Odd. Frustrating ....

[deb usa]

Hi everyone,

Claire, Thank you for your post with info on Charlotte Street and surrounding areas. I think we have all searched for clues by googling but it's great to have your link as it directs us to a specific area/street immediately!

Nesta ... Thank you for taking the time to call them. Like you, we all wish they could answer our questions without the run around, albeit they were nice about it! 

Ruskie ... I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't find Granny Shepard's death. Do you think NB decided not to register his mum and granny??    Seriously though, where is Granny? 

I have googled Holborn and Marylebone (the two places that could hold Mary's death details) and then gone to maps ...they seem to be about the same distance from St Pancras in opposite directions.

Oh what to do? I am contemplating buying the certs just to get it over with ! 

I shall sleep on it ...

deb

added: Matthew Ward was of Richmond Buildings and was registered in Strand which is closer to Holborn than Marylebone. (of course I am using just very basic directions on google maps so I could be wrong!)

[nestagj]

Hi

Ruskie - Mongibello will have looked in Westminster Archives which is a separate entity to Westminster Registry Office.  The Birth, Deathj and Marriage Registers are not available for public searching through the archives - something we are arguing about in the UK at the moment !

Deb - there seemed to be a lot of to-ing and fro-ing between the registration districts in the period in question from the google I did on marylebone registrar's an holborn

Would you like me to write to both ?  I will be happy to do so - if you would please summarise what  info we already have on her for me to put in the letter as they asked for as much information as possibe.

Thanks
N

[Ruskie]

Hi Nesta, Well I am confused now. I did not realise you phoned the Westminster Register Office rather than Westminster Archives. Sorry about that.

I think I am correct in thinking that as a volunteer, Mongibello has access to some documents which the general public do not, however if they do not hold bmd certificates then obviously he cannot search through them.

Very nice of you to offer to send them a snail mail letter. I will see if I can work out a letter which gives all the information as we know it, but in the mean time see my Reply #74 on Page 9 which is the email I sent to the GRO. Obviously this letter will need tweeking before we sent it to the Register Office but I think the basics are there.

Getting late here for me but I will see what I can come up with tomorrow if no body beats me to it. 

[nestagj]

HI Ruskei

any chance of the information so that I can write to the Registrars.

Thank you

Nesta