Thank you majm....
Here is the family in 1890 in Nyköping. Carl's father was a river pilot.
If you want I can trace this family in the books here in Sweden.
Thanks Ian for searching out that info. I hesitate to respond to your offer to trace this family using your local resources as
I am not the OP, but I am sure that both our OP and the descendants of Florence’s children would be just as interested in their Swedish ancestors as in their Fogarty and St Clair ancestors.
Re Ellen Fogarty and John St Clair. Some thoughts .....
May I suggest that our OP considers spending some pennies. I am not one to regularly advocate purchasing actual real deal NSW BDM certificates, but on this occasion I do suggest this option. Particularly as the Vic BDM images may have an Ellen’s autograph on the birth registrations for a Florence, a Henry, a John. I am speculating that Mrs Ellen O’Connor and Mrs Ellen St Clair MAY be one and the same person. I am wondering if the Ellen St Clair signature on the 1896 NSW marriage cert may be compared with the signature of the informant registering the Vic births of Florence or her likely younger siblings.
Yes, the OP does already have the NSW BDM issued certificate for the 1896 marriage. BUT in 1984 the NSW BDM was issuing TYPED UP records, rather than actual images. They DO have the images, and have been issuing those historic images for quite a few years now.
Of course, I would also recommend that the OP FIRST sends an email to NSW BDM and ask them to expressly confirm that an order placed NOW to purchase a copy of the marriage certificate (#2224 of 1896) ANDERSON = ST CLAIR would give images of the actual register copy with SIGNATURES of the WITNESSES and specifically ask them to LOOK AT the particular register entry and CONFIRM that the entry giving witness names is NOT all in the same hand (ie not in the handwriting of the clergyman !)
Alternatively, as the ceremony was conducted at 57 Phillip St (Sydney) and was according to Methodist Episcopal rites, with Rev W T ADAMS, perhaps the OP may consider contacting the Uniting Church Archives and offer them a copy of that NSW BDM issued cert from 27 April 1984. They may know where the Church register is currently located, and how to gain access to it.
http://www.insights.nsw.uca.org.au/church/archives.htm It is entirely possible that Mrs Ellen O’CONNOR nee FOGARTY at Richmond Vic in the late 1870s and into the early 1880s, mother of Florence, Henry, and others, was not Mrs Ellen ST CLAIR nee FOGARTY, mother of Florence born Richmond Vic 1877/8. But, it was not (and still is not) illegal to change your name so long as you are not setting out to deceive or otherwise avoid criminal charges. As a female, I changed my last name when I married, as that was the custom at the time. Ellen FOGARTY likely changed her last name to O’CONNOR when she married John O’Connor. Perhaps she later changed her surname to ST CLAIR. If so, then likely her children born to John O’Connor may have stayed with her, and became known by the surname ST CLAIR.
Hopefully obtaining some BDM certs with informant/witness signatures may advance the quest. As an aside, perhaps the Henry St Clair witness signature on the 1899 marriage may be matched to Henry St Clair’s signature on the 1908 marriage for a Henry M St Clair (to Beatrice V Wall)
Cheers, JM
