Florence Beatrice St Clair b 1877 Melbourne

[majm]

I have sent you the PM with my email address.

[Essie]

.....Wondering if she was connected to George St Clair and Ann Thompson.......

I can see only one John/James ST CLAIR in VIC who was the son of George and Ann nee THOMPSON.
John James STCLAIR born 1849 BROKEN RIV
This John married in Sydney in 1875 so unlikely to be the father of Florence.

Marriages in NSW for two other John ST CLAIRs (1882 & 1887).  Perhaps Ellen and Florence went to NSW with one of them and then parted company.

Essie

[sparrett]

According to items in the Victorian Govt. Gazette, George ST CLAIR was appointed Chief Police Constable at the Broken River in November 1847.
Sue

[CJB123]

I am trying to find out if John St Clair is connected to George St Clair and Anne Thompson, Melbourne.  Their son James John was married in Sydney and I think he can be ruled out.  Some of George's children went to Sydney and I think that might be why Ellen went with Florence to NSW.  Have checked out the Gundagai St Clair's and someone said that James St Clair had a cousin, George, in NSW, in 1850, but I wonder if it was George in Melbourne.

[majm]

Hi there,

I have not received anything at my email inbox.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Re ST CLAIR and GUNDAGAI
NSW SRO has two deceased estate files, two chaps named James ST CLAIR both of Gundagai, both died 12 July, but ONE died 1880 and the other in 1881.

12 July 1880, duty paid 21 Aug 1888
12 July 1881, duty paid 11 Oct 1881.

It may be worthwhile checking those two files, to see if perhaps they are both for same chap and the 1888 file may well be an adjustment to the first file ….. perhaps an additional benefit came through that needed distribution.  ADD, speculatively .... to whom ?  Florence ? 

I think the dc would be ref 7059, father as George  (of 1880 !)

Cheers,  JM (still no email in my inbox .... )

[majm]

Hi Everyone,

Our OP has kindly sent me the pdfs for the four marriages and the dc.   They are issued by NSW BDM, in the 1970s and 1980s, apart from the Sandry marriage cert, which is the front page of the cert issued by the clergy (the reverse side has the details of the witnesses, and signatures but I do not have a copy of that side)

May I thank our OP for sending these through to me.

Here's my transcription of the first two marriages.

16 April 1896 at 57 Phillip St SYDNEY,
Lawrence ANDERSON, Master Mariner of the ship “Oceana Vance” a Bachelor, born Edinburgh, Scotland, and of 45 years, the son of Lawrence Anderson (deceased) and Elizabeth Williamson (deceased)
Married
Florence ST CLAIR, Gentlewoman of Surry Hills, a Spinster, born Melbourne, Victoria, and of 18 years, the daughter of John St. Clair (deceased) and Ellen Fogarty. 
Ellen St. Clair giving consent to the marriage.
W T Adams, Officiating Minister, Methodist Episcopal Church rites
Witnesses:  Ellen St. Clair and Maggie Colwell.


6 May 1899 at St Luke’s Church Sussex St, Sydney
Olaf OLSEN, a Seaman, of Gloucester St, Sydney, a Bachelor born Chrissund, Norway, and of 28 years, the son of Olaf Olsen and Johanna Olsen (JM notes her maiden name is shown as Olsen)
Married
Florence ANDERSON, (no occupation given), a Widow, born Melbourne, Victoria, and of 21 years, the daughter of John St. Clair and Ellen Fogarty.   
Edward Heffernan, Officiating Minister, Church of England rites
Witnesses Henry St. Clair and Alice PLEYM. 

So, clearly the same bride on each occasion.   I notice:

1. John St CLAIR is noted as deceased in 1896, but not in 1899.  Perhaps the ¸¸† mark next to his name was not recorded by the Rev Heffernan..... who  it seems has NOT noted occupations for the fathers of either the bride or the groom (he was required to), so perhaps NSW BDM has not typed up ALL the available information that Rev Heffernan was required to lodge with them.  Perhaps a current official transcription would provide further details regarding Florence's father.

2. Ellen St CLAIR is the name used by Florence's mum in 1896, so it is unlikely that Ellen re-married during Florence's childhood, and as Florence is noted as a Gentlewoman, it is likely that Ellen and Florence were both living at the same address that Florence has given when she married Lawrence ANDERSON in 1896.    "Surry Hills" in that era starts down near Central Station, Forveaux St comes immediately to mind, but there were many others.   May I suggest that there's two good online resources to help find boarding houses in Surry Hills in that decade .... 
City of Sydney's website has recently uploaded the Sands Directories (the entire !) 1858-1933.  Here's the thread with the link   http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.msg5267800#msg5267800   
and
City of Sydney's Assessment Books http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/assessment-books

3. Henry ST CLAIR was a witness to Florence's marriage in 1899 to Olaf OLSEN.   So, the question becomes HOW is Henry related to Florence?   Is he her brother, uncle, cousin, grandparent, or otherwise related to Florence.

4. Florence Beatrice ..... I may have missed it, but I cannot see any document with "Beatrice" mentioned at all. 

I will print off a copy of each pdf and leave them beside my workdesk today, and allow the info in these documents to "sink in".... 

Fingers crossed there's other RChatters with fresh eyes to help.

Oops, Forgot to mention,  Captain L Anderson and Google sightings....  WATCH the dates ! 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14045396  SMH 14 April 1896.
Captain L Anderson of the Oceania Vance sailing for Honolulu via Newcastle.

The Hawaiian Gazette July 3, 1896.  Page 5
Captain L Anderson of the Oceania Vane Asked for his regisation.   New Master Arrived by the Alameda Yesterday and Will Assume Command Immediately.   

There have been some very queer goings on aboard the American schooner Oceania Vance, which arrived recently from Newcastle, and the result of the whole matter is that Captain Anderson is now looking for a job on another vessel and Captain Dart, who arrived from San Francisco by the Alameda yesterday has been put in possession of all the ship’s papers and will assume control immediately.   The primary cause for relieving Captain Anderson of command of the Oceania Vance was some trouble in regard to coal, and the secondary cause that he brought certain women to this port from Newcastle.   Wilder & Co., who are agents for the schooner, have considered the matter well and are sure that the course they are pursuing is a good one ….”
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83025121/1896-07-03/ed-1/seq-5/ 

Also a pdf http://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/handle/10524/2951/1896070301.pdf?sequence=1  (scroll to page 5)



Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Mr Google to the fore 

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SFC18960730.2.111#   San Francisco Call, Vol 80, Number 60, 30 July 1896
The schooner Oceania Vance, now at Honolulu, has a new master.  Captain Dart, late of the schooner Sparrow, went down to the islands to assume command, but had to carry the matter to the consular courts before he could oust Captain Anderson.  The latter came back to San Francisco on the steamer Australia, but he has not so far gone near the owners.   The agent of the vessel says that since the vessel sailed for Australia they have never heard from the master, and learned by the last steamer, from outside sources, that he had taken three women with him, as passengers, from Sydney to Honolulu.  The managing owner would like to see Anderson.

May I please speculate that Florence was likely one of those three women….  Perhaps Ellen St Clair and Maggie Colwell may also have been on that voyage.   

Cheers,  JM

[wivenhoe]

Possible connection?

BDM NSW
3217/1894  SINCLAIR  John H    m.    COLWELL  Jane       Coonabarabran

(Maggie COLWELL witness 1896 marriage)