looking for person

[Ladyhawk]

That is definitely the right family.

Samuel b.abt 1859, 
convicted on these dates 29 Aug 1904, 7 Nov 1904, 20 June 1907 and the last so far is
4 Feb 1908 all for begging.

After that I have lost him. I am not to sure who Samuel's parents are.

Ada's birth abt 1894-5 as both Ada and Florence were baptised together. She was sent to Canada through the Middlemore Children Home group in 1905.

Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Ada Turner Age:   9
Departure Date:   20 Jun 1905
Port of Departure:   Liverpool, England Destination Port:   Halifax, Canada
Ship Name:   Siberian

Ada is the grandmother of smackie. I am trying to help.

Do you have confirmation of Ada's mother Selina's maiden name?

Have I got the correct marriage for Samuel Turner occ Hawker to Selina Fulwell in 1892?
he's 20 years old so he would have been born c 1872 a big age gap from the court records  born about c1859

Is it possible that the Samuel Turner born c 1859 in prison is a different person his occupation given as a Labourer and it looks as if this Samuel is in prison in Yorkshire in 1911 & he's single

Samuel Turner age 45 abt 1859 Birmingham occ lab.
Event Date: 29 Aug 1904
Prison or Quarter Session:   HMP Wakefield West Yorkshire
Sentence:   Imprisonment or Servitude

This could be him with his parents

1861 census RG 9; Piece: 2159; Folio: 19; Page: 33
Samuel Turner age 3 born c1859 Birmingham son of Charles & Emma




 

[sballinger]

This is what I have to go on for Samuel. It is an email from smackie to me:

and it was brought to my attention some time ago that when Samuel and Selina split up, Ada went with her father and Florence went with her mother. After Selina died, Florence went to her uncles home to live. Samuel got in alot of trouble with the law. He must have lost his home and he and Ada went on the street to live. The police told him on his last drunkin stoper that he had to find a home for Adas. Now i have no proof of any of that but maybe thats why she is not on the census for that time frame. Does that make sense to you? also, i think grammie went to childrens home in 1904 and canada in 1905.

Selina is definitely Fulwell and that is totally a huge age gap...know I am beginning to wonder myself?

[sballinger]

I don't know if allowed to post a copy of the baptisms of Ada and Florence or not? But they were baptised on the same day...parents are Samuel and Selina Turner.

[Ladyhawk]

Selina is definitely Fulwell and that is totally a huge age gap...know I am beginning to wonder myself?

On that m/c Samuel's age is 20 (born 1872) occ Hawker his father is named as William Turner occ Fruiterer
Selina's married sister Annie Whitehouse & her husband Samuel witnessed the wedding

from Ada & Florence's baptism both on the same day in 1895 father Samuel's occupation is a Hawker

from ciderdrinker we have ADA on 1901 census

61 Grosvenor Road Birmingham
William Turner 54 green grocer Bham
Jane 52 Bham
Albert 25 tyre maker Aston
Lily 21 tyre expander Aston
Arthur 20 tyre maker Aston
Elsie L 12 grand daughter Bham
Ada 5 grand daughter Aston
John Hoar 25 boarder (uncle 1911) rubber tyre maker India

interestingly on that 1901 census there's  Elsie L Turner age 12 granddaughter
this appears to be her baptism

7 May 1889 St James the Less Ashted
Elsie Lily Turner born 18 April 1889
Parents Samuel occ Fruiter & Mary Jane abode Coleshill St.

and she is with her parents on 1891 census father
Samuel Turner born c1870 & mother Mary (married 1889)
Samuel Turner's age 18 occ Fruiterer father William occ. Fruiterer

if I've got this correct Elsie Lily Turner born 1889
would be the step sister of Ada Lavinia & Florence Violet Turner
their father being Samuel Turner born c1870 Birmingham occ. Fruiterer/Hawker

and in 1901 FLORENCE Turner is lodging with her mother Selina  with
Samuel & Annie WHITEHOUSE

Hope this makes some sort of sence - if you have access to Ancestry you can view the marriages of

Samuel Turner to Mary Dance
Samuel Turner to Selina Fulwell

and baptism of
Elsie Lily Turner 1889

and see what you make of it
 

[sballinger]

Wow! Very interesting indeed. Will take my time to look at the ancestry. Thanks Ladyhawk.

[Ladyhawk]

There's also this marriage to look at occupation looks to be fitter for Samuel and fruiterer for his father William

30 June 1902 Aston Warwickshire
Samuel Turner widower 29 (1873) f William fruiterer
Elizabeth Hickling 27 single f Edward odd Engine driver
Wits Frederick Hickling & Alice Dexter

For info.
Annie Elizabeth Fulwell age 20 f John married  13 Sept 1884 St Peter & St Paul’s Church Aston to Samuel Whitehouse

Wish we could locate Samuel Turner born c 1872 Birmingham on the 1901 census 

[sballinger]

Another marriage? 

[sballinger]

Egads, Samuel must've been scoundrel!

If he married Mary Dance in 1889 she would've been pregnant with Elsie Lily.

Then on his marriage to Selina he is a bachelor? Can that happen? Unless the marriage was annulled?

Then his marriage to Elizabeth he is a widow which makes sense since Selina died in 1902.

I can't find him on any census and so the criminal past of Samuel is now off the table due to the age but seeing Ada on the 1901 Census that you posted makes me feel good for the fact that at least her grandparents were looking after her.

ciderdrinker and miriamkinga posts I have had to rule out for Florence's information as I have made contact with the owner of that particular tree and it is a different family.

[Ladyhawk]

seeing Ada on the 1901 Census posted makes me feel good for the fact that at least her grandparents were looking after her.

61 Grosvenor Road Birmingham
William Turner 54 green grocer Bham
Jane 52 Bham
Albert 25 tyre maker Aston
Lily 21 tyre expander Aston
Arthur 20 tyre maker Aston
Elsie L 12 grand daughter Bham
Ada 5 grand daughter Aston
John Hoar 25 boarder (uncle 1911) rubber tyre maker India

So I wonder if this could be the 1873 christening of Samuel Turner born 1871
parents named William & Jane

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JM1X-8K3