Age for service abroad.

[king ranger]

The rules were different for officers and other ranks - officers could be sent to the front aged 18, other ranks 19.  Obviously there were many who lied to get into the action during the early months of the war.  These would turn up in France in 1915/16.

Regarding the lowering of the age for other ranks on 10 April 1918 as noted above, this was to some extent retrospective.  I have just been researching a lad who was sent out in the opening days of April 1918 despite being under 19.  The crisis of late March that caused the change didn't wait for the legislation to be passed, even though it was rushed through.  In the case of William Crocker it was seriously bad news - he died on 11 April, aged 18, after 9 days in France.

That really is tragic only lasted 9 day's.I am begining to think that David and Robert although they were the best of mates and did both end up in the same KOSB Batt ,they must have arrived in France at different times as their army numbers are no where near each other.

[km1971]

What was David's number? If he was at Mons he must have been a Regular as they were the only troops with enough training to go with the BEF. The first Territorials to be sent were I believe the London Scottish followed soon after by the Liverpool Scottish. In the latter case the Regulars did not want them, and kept them in reserve until they had been through the first battle, and survived the very bad first winter,

I would expect a Regular at Mons to have a number in the low five digits.

Ken

[king ranger]

Hi Ken  we know David was not at Mons he did not sail to France until 15th January 1915,the reason given was he did not become 19 until until Oct 27 1914 so he could not be sent over till he was 19. But what threw us was his mate Robert Baird who lived around the corner from him was supposed to have gone with him .We then noticed that Robert was killed 3rd Sept 1916 aged 18 so how did he get to France under 19 or did he lie about his age, or when they did lower the age in 1916 Robert could only have been in France a few months before being killed which means he did not go over with David. David was 13856,and Robert going by the CWGC was number 44063 which also shows their numbers being miles apart. David was a regular he stayed in until 1920, he was wounded at 3rd Battle of Ypres and moved into the MGC 1918-1920.               
                                                           Colin.

[newburychap]

Date of death (Sep 1916) and number (44000s) both seem right for a Kitchener recruit - which is the period of recruitment when lads were lying about their age. 

As for the tragedy of William Crocker's death after 9 days in France, the other Crocker on Newbury memorial (Thomas) died the first time he went into action, 3 days after landing at Gallipoli. It was often the newbies who fell.

[IMBER]

As regards youngsters in the BEF my great uncle was a 17 year old Lance Corporal with the Grenadier Guards who was killed in the retreat from Mons on 1 September 1914.

Imber

[crazylibrarian]

Purely out of interest......my maternal great grandfather, a Sherwood Forester, was 39 years old when he volunteered in 1914. He was 'too old' at the time but lied about his age. He was in the first Battle at Ypres and got shot up in his left arm and was subsequently medically discharged. My paternal Grandfather, was just 18 when he subsequently volunteered in 1914, was a machine gunner (trained at Belton Camp in my home town of Grantham ) and went overseas too. I believe that the powers that be turned a blind eye to their age discretions. Once conscription came in in 1916, they relaxed the rules on age, increasing it to mid 40s and allowing  much younger lads to enlist. Our boys were so patriotic initially, many thought it would be over quickly. My Grandfather went through the whole lot and survived until the 1970s. However, he did suffer the effects of the mustard gas which may have contributed to his later ill health. The only time he spoke about the war was to my dad, when he joined up for National Service. During that one time conversation he told my dad that when he was firing the vickers machine gun across the trenches, he asked his superior if he could 'shoot at the Gerrys' from the knees down as he was feeling really sick of all the body parts flying all over the place' he was subsequently given a stiff telling off! The hell they must have gone through. I am so proud of both of them.

[king ranger]

As regards youngsters in the BEF my great uncle was a 17 year old Lance Corporal with the Grenadier Guards who was killed in the retreat from Mons on 1 September 1914.

Imber,  Hi Imber, everytime i think i am getting close to an answer then another post throws up more possibilities. My mate said he was convinced his Grandfather David Alexander did serve in India, but as we were told he could not go oversea's until he was 19 we had ruled him out being there pre 1915, your great uncle is proof that underage soldiers were going abroad at the start of the war. I am wondering if David could have been in India underage with the 1st Batt KOSB Pre WW1 then moved into the 2nd Batt at the start of January 1915 When he sailed to France.But without any records to go by it looks like we might never find out.
                                                       Colin.

[newburychap]

Once conscription came in in 1916, they relaxed the rules on age, increasing it to mid 40s and allowing  much younger lads to enlist.

Not so - conscription was introduced in January 1916 for all between 19 and 41, it became much harder to enlist underage. In the early days of the war there was a good amount of 'turning a blind eye' from the recruiters, and a lot of lads trying it on, some were even encouraged by their parents! By 1916 the reality of war was apparent and lads were far less likely to want to enlist.

In May 1916 the lower age was reduced to 18 - so they could send them out fully trained when they turned 19.

[king ranger]

Hi folks i have asked this question on another post before, but was wondering if anybody can throw some light on it again. David Alexander was born Oct 1895 was sent to France Jan 15th 1915. We know he left the KOSB in 1918 and was in the MGC 1918- 1920 till they disbanded . Does anyone think it he signed on for 6 or 7 years his records might still be being held , one poster told us he would have signed on for the duration of the war and not for 6-7 years, but although fighting was going on in the 1920 era would that still have been classed as the duration of the war.Thanks for any help.
                                           Colin.