Carson - Belfast - Catholic?

[KitCarson]

Hi Galloway Lass, I've been trying to upload copies/excerpts from both of Mary's marriage certs but they are too large.  I'll have to get my daughter to help me later.

Anyway, the certificates say:

John and Mary 2 December 1882
... Married in the St Alban's Church according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Catholic Church by Certificate by me PP Kelly then underneath PP Kelly's signature line "John J Shaw, Registrar"

James and Mary 1 November 1886
.... Married in the Our Lady of Reconciliation Chapel according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Catholic Church by me, James McKenna and then underneath James McKenna's signature line again "John J Shaw, Registrar"

Says nothing about JJ Shaw being in attendance though.

The witnesses named on the certificate for James and Mary are:
William Crotty (or Biotty) and Bridget Austin - I can find any familial relationship

James' father is Robert 'Coachman'

Also, although being 4 years apart, Mary is 27 in 1882 and 29 in 1886.  Well done girl!

I have no idea on siblings as James doesn't appear in the 1881 census and none of the Carson's I can find in the 1881 or 1891 look to be related.

Kit

[GallowayLass]

Hi Kit,

Here's my thoughts. Best of luck with it, hope it turns out to be right for you.

I have found a Robert Carson, retired coachman on both 1901 and 1911 censuses. He is unfortunately a widower on both but I have identified a possible marriage for him and a birth for the younger daughter allowing for people's ages on censuses not being exact. The place is not far from Belfast, on the south side in County Down. The marriage is in 1851, so any children born pre:1864 won't have birth certificates. The family are Presbyterian so this would account for you not finding a baptism for James. You'll probably have to contact the Presbyterian church/es in the area to find out if they still hold their registers. There are 4 of them in the area - Ballywalter, Kircubbin, Carrowmore and Trinity, Greyabbey. Addresses are on Google. There is a baptism for Isabella in Greyabbey, so I'd start with that one. You can purchase full images of the birth of Isabella and the marriage of Robert Carson and Margaret Gilmore on the GRONI website. You need to register and purchase credits. You'll need 10 credits which costs £4. There's no lower limit on credits so go for 5 to start with and find out from the marriage certificate if the groom is actually a coachman. If yes, then go for the birth as well.

1911 Residents of a house 10 in Springvale (Ballywalter, Down)
Parish Ballywalter. Townland Springvale.
Surname   Forename   Age   Sex   Relation to head   Religion   Birthplace   Occupation
Carson   Robert   82   Male   Head of Family (widower)   Presbyterian   County Down   Retired Coachman
Carson   Jane   55   Female   Daughter   Presbyterian   County Down   Embroiderer at Home
Carson   Isabella   42   Female   Daughter   Presbyterian   County Down   Embroiderer at Home

1901 Residents of a house 17 in Springvale (Ballywalter, Down
Parish Ballywalter. Townland Springvale.
Surname   Forename   Age   Sex   Relation to head   Religion   Birthplace   Occupation
Carson   Isabella   29   Female   Daughter   Presbyterian   Down   Dressmaker
Carson   Robert   73   Male   Head of Family
(widower)   Presbyterian   Down   Retired Coachman

Registration number    Forename    Surname    Surname of partner    Date of marriage    Registration district    
M/1851/A1/24/1/69    Margaret    Gilmore    Carson    18th October 1851    Ards

Registration number    Forename of child    Surname of child    Date of birth    Sex of child    Mother's maiden name    Registration district    
U/1867/199/1024/2/449    Isabella    Carson    18th November 1867    Female    Gilmore    Newtownards(pre-1973 Q4) sub district Greyabbey

[KitCarson]

Wow, it's sure worth a try.

Thanks very much for your help and the time you have spent looking into this query for me.  Even if it turns out not to be my family, I very much appreciate your time and effort.

Now to see what I can find out!

Kit

[KitCarson]

Hi Galloway Lass,

Well, I took your advice and bought credits on GRONI and with the help of your searches, bought the full certificates to view.  The result is:

Marriage
Robert/21/Bachelor/Labourer/Springvale
Father Robert/Labourer
Margaret/21/Spinster/unreadable/Sprinvale
Father James
Witnesses: John Gibson and William Carson

Birth
Isabella
Father Robert/Servant
Mother Margaret Carson formerly Gilmore
Annie Carson - Present at the Birth
Newtownards - Greyabbey

It was worth a try but I'm not convinced my James would say he was from Belfast if he was born closer to Newtownards or Bangor.  It might be that I have to wait until the 1921 census to see if it's any more specific than 'Belfast'.  That'll be my last chance at census records as he died in 1922.

I'll keep on checking for new records as they appear and hope someone with the same family interest gets in touch.  I'm definitely more convinced that James wasn't Catholic which opens up more possibilities.

Kit