Author Topic: Help with Uniform Identification  (Read 2435 times)

Offline jim1

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Re: Help with Uniform Identification
« Reply #9 on: Monday 28 April 14 19:19 BST (UK) »
There's one in Aldershot. He's in the Royal Fusiliers though.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline mmm45

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Re: Help with Uniform Identification
« Reply #10 on: Monday 28 April 14 19:41 BST (UK) »
The 11085 number gives an enlistment date of May 1914 ..source Army Service Numbers 1881 website.thats with Royal Scots Fusiliers.

Ady
Lowe(Lower Gornall-Castleford)
Blackburn (Castleford)
Sidwell(Ledsham)
Fairburn(Hartshead)
Wood(Liversedge)
Tallon (Whittington Lancs/Hartshead West Yorkshire)

Researching all Great War soldiers from the Spen Valley of West Yorkshire Especially lads from the Cleckheaton Company of 1/4th West Riding Regiment.

Offline Regorian

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Re: Help with Uniform Identification
« Reply #11 on: Monday 28 April 14 19:59 BST (UK) »
I've been looking up uniforms images/photo's for Royal Scots and Royal Scots Fusiliers. I can't see the differences. British Army adopted khaki battle dress in 1908, not to say that the red coats were never worn after that. Khaki (Hindu word for mud I believe) goes back to India in the 1850's. Certainly not The Royal Fusiliers, a London Regiment.   
Griffiths Llandogo, Mitcheltroy, Mon. and Whitchurch Here (Also Edwards),  18th C., Griffiths FoD 19th Century.

Offline bugle boy

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Re: Help with Uniform Identification
« Reply #12 on: Monday 28 April 14 20:22 BST (UK) »
please check your facts again,that pic is royal scots fusiliers
Adams,McKittrick. Co Down. N Ireland.


Offline jim1

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Re: Help with Uniform Identification
« Reply #13 on: Monday 28 April 14 20:28 BST (UK) »
Quote
not to say that the red coats were never worn after that. Khaki
Khaki was only adopted as battle dress. Dress uniforms were & still are red for many Regiments.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline AndySul

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Re: Help with Uniform Identification
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 29 April 14 09:42 BST (UK) »
Many thanks again for all the responses.

If I can summarise so I can make sure I'm on the right track as I worked on this till late last night to the point where my head started to hurt  ???

The uniform definitely relates to a Fusilier's uniform, most likely to be Royal Scots Fusiliers (I say most likely as from the posts I'm unclear if we can definitely rule out other Fusilier Regiments such as Royal Fusiliers / Royal Munster Fusiliers etc)

The uniform evidences that they were a regular soldier as its dress tunic which wouldn't have been issued post outbreak of WW1. The photo itself is potential around the 1910 to 1912 mark, with the service number indicating an enlisted around May 1914 (though I know service numbers can run out of sync sometimes as they often weren't issued from a central point)

Either way, taking the aforementioned into account, we can definitely say he joined anytime between 1910 and June 1914.

As we believe he was born in 1893 in Southwark, London (though we are struggling to find a birth cert so location may vary - age we are pretty certain of +1 / -1 year due to brothers either side that we have traced who were born Southwark at the family address) he would have turned 18 around 1911

11085 is a possible hit though the soldiers died database lists him as resident / being born in a location with no known family connections and enlisted in Glasgow - so not the final piece to the jigsaw but a lead worth following. No service record for 11085, x1 MIC

There are also two KIAs from the Royal Munster Fusiliers in the same name, hence why I mentioned them earlier 5842 & 5209 No service records available for either, born Ireland, so unlikely but secondary leads to follow unless told otherwise.

Its possible that they married 'finance in photo', hence why medals not passed down to us by parents.

Census for 1911 negative for Thomas Sullivan Royal Scots Fusiliers

What I plan to do know, again unless told otherwise.

Contact Royal Highland Fusiliers Museum and see if they can offer any additional information on the uniform and record keeping.

Send a request off to the Western Front Association for pension info on the above possibles, plus a couple of unlikely's I have to see if I can get any info which links them to family etc

Revisit attempting to trace Thomas' birth cert, including Newport area

Appreciate he may have enlisted, left and re-enlisted or enlisted and changed Corps / Regiments whilst serving but for obvious reasons need to eliminate this line of enquiry before I go broad on the search again.

If I've missed anything or got anything wrong then please let me know

Many thanks again.

Andy S

Offline jim1

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Re: Help with Uniform Identification
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 29 April 14 11:28 BST (UK) »
The only other Regiment that comes close to this in tunic & tartan is the King's Own Scottish Borderers.
You can rule out the others.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline AndySul

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Re: Help with Uniform Identification
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 29 April 14 12:03 BST (UK) »
Jim, bugle boy, mmm45 thanks for all your help

Time for me to start to put the pieces together on this one.

07

Offline fetlar13

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Re: Help with Uniform Identification
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 29 April 14 12:39 BST (UK) »
Andy

This may not help, but if I've followed the thread correctly you're looking for a birth certificate for Thomas circa 1893 in Southwark.  Would it be possible that his birth was registered in a neighbouring borough, e.g. Lewisham? Nothing clever as I've just cut and pasted the records from FreeBMD, but there is a Thomas Charles registered in Lewisham in Quarter 2 of 1894.  I searched for all Thomas Sullivan's born 1891 to 1895. Maybe there was a problem at Southwark Registrars Office when Thomas was born so parents were sent to the nearest? Just an idea??

Steve 


Births Mar 1891   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Sullivan  Thomas    Greenwich  1d 1032   

~~~~~~~~
Births Sep 1891   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
SULLIVAN  Thomas     Woolwich  1d 1202   

~~~~~~~~
Births Jun 1892   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Sullivan  Thomas     Marylebone  1a 606   
Sullivan  Thomas William     St. Olave  1d 278   

~~~~~~~~
Births Dec 1892   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Sullivan  Thomas Gilbert     St. Saviour  1d 56   

~~~~~~~~
Births Mar 1894   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Sullivan  Thomas     Greenwich  1d 1059   
Sullivan  Thomas     Greenwich  1d 1059   

~~~~~~~~
Births Jun 1894   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Sullivan  Thomas     Pancras  1b 150   
Sullivan  Thomas Charles     Lewisham  1d 1103   
Sullivan  Thomas William     Lambeth  1d 442   

~~~~~~~~
Births Mar 1895   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Sullivan  Thomas     St. Olave  1d 250   

~~~~~~~~
Births Jun 1895   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Sullivan  Thomas Patrick     Poplar  1c 710   

~~~~~~~~
Births Sep 1895   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Sullivan  Thomas Charles     Bethnal G.  1c 151   

~~~~~~~~
Births Dec 1895   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Sullivan  Thomas     St. Olave  1d 184