Patrick HEFFERNAN

[dog_foster_carer]

Yes they frequently appear in probate packets of that era - I've seen a few (all with negative finds).  I think it was a standard form to be completed.

cheers,
   Ros

Thanks Ros,
that explains it then. This is the first probate packet I've seen so it was just a little strange to see but I understand now.
See, you are all a wealth of information!!!
Thanks again
dfc 

[dog_foster_carer]

If you google Selmes/Heffernan/Wallerang  you see these families connecting, so it is possible that Patrick does exist.
Ada would hardly be able to have several children, and keep them together with her, without a spouse to support them.
It is interesting that with several sons Patrick does not give his own name to one of them, a common practice at the time.
Do you see the Heffernan sons with a son Patrick...any effort to perpetuate father's name?
Any bakers among the sons...following father's trade?

I was trolling through NSW BDM and came across a death registration for a Patrick Heffernan and for some reason bought the transcription.  It turns out that I got lucky as it was for a Patrick Heffernan (aka Wade), mother = Ada Selmes, father = Patrick Heffernan, estimated year of birth 1896, and the informant was W Heffernan, nephew, 40A Noble Avenue, Greenacre.  It seems this is the elusive Leslie Heffernan that was listed on Ada's death certificate.  So it seems that Patrick did have a son named after him and I assume that Leslie was his middle name and was the name used by family members. 

Absence of the name/occupation pattern I am suggesting does not prove anything, but it would be encouraging to see some evidence of Patrick........and some influence in their lives

Who is the witness for Ada's death certificate?

My interest in this marriage certificate.......
16792 / 1914 Olive M HEFFERNAN m. William A BRENNAN         Lithgow

Transcription received. Patrick Heffernan, father listed as a labourer, not noted as deceased but a note states that "The consent of Ada Heffernan, being the mother of the bride, was given in writing to the marriage, father out of NSW".

is the proximity to the birth of last child (..by thirteen years?)...William Sidney.
I wonder if it would identify Patrick as deceased?

It seems that the only time Patrick is noted as deceased is on his daughter Vespa's marriage certificate in 1919 and his son Lawrence's marriage certificate in 1924. No mention of his living/death status is mentioned on any of his other children's marriage/death certificates.

dfc

[dog_foster_carer]

I've been ringing about once a week to ten days for about a month or so to a local parish church in the Trangie/Narromine area asking the Reverend if he or his admin officer could possibly have a look to see if they have any baptism records available for the period 1890-1920ish.  And if so, could they please look to see if any records exist for the Heffernan family.  Every time I ring he states he hasn't had time to have a look, or is finding some excuse for not having an answer - well it seems like that to me.  I said as much this morning (politely) when I spoke to him and said that if it is too much trouble or you don't have the time, please just tell me so and I won't bother ringing him again.  He was so rude to me and said if you want to ring, fine, if you don't, fine - I've got to go now and just hung up whilst I was still talking.  Are members of the clergy often as rude and as unhelpful as this one?  I'm wondering if it's worth bothering to phone again.
dfc

[majm]

I've been ringing about once a week to ten days for about a month or so to a local parish church in the Trangie/Narromine area asking the Reverend if he or his admin officer could possibly have a look to see if they have any baptism records available for the period 1890-1920ish.  And if so, could they please look to see if any records exist for the Heffernan family.  Every time I ring he states he hasn't had time to have a look, or is finding some excuse for not having an answer - well it seems like that to me.  I said as much this morning (politely) when I spoke to him and said that if it is too much trouble or you don't have the time, please just tell me so and I won't bother ringing him again.  He was so rude to me and said if you want to ring, fine, if you don't, fine - I've got to go now and just hung up whilst I was still talking.  Are members of the clergy often as rude and as unhelpful as this one?  I'm wondering if it's worth bothering to phone again.
dfc

Hi there,

Many I please gently suggest that the main function of clergy has very little to do with looking up family history records, and in rural districts they often are responsible for parishes that cover vast  geographical expanses, requiring them to drive for many hours between the meeting places for their local community.   

I find it is a better option to send a snail mail enquiry, enclosing a self addressed stamped envelope (bigger than the DL size, so at least a C5 size one, or bigger) and a copy of the NSW BDM certificate that I am asking for the further details from the relevant church register.   

Clergy are humans, just like you and me.   Family History matters are of course important to family history buffs, but these are WANTS rather than NEEDS, and so clergy are likely to find phone enquiries about family history matters from persons who are not regulars within the community served by that clergy to errrr..... fall into the WANTS category rather than the NEEDS category.   

So, perhaps a snail mail letter, with the documentation supporting the enquiry, along with perhaps even a couple of sheets of blank paper, and definitely an envelope with a stamp and your postal address may well be very well received. 

It can sometimes take months and months for the clergy to reply.   Sometimes this is simply because of the pressure of their workload, other times it can be the delay in locating the exact register, or perhaps in the lack of priority they assign to phone call requests for "look up" info about those who are no longer living.

"I've got to go now" does mean just that !  So that is why the clergy hung up even though you were still talking.   I have retired clergy as elderly rellies.   When they have to go, they have to go.         

Cheers,  JM

[dog_foster_carer]

Thanks JM

I fully understand what you are saying and I don't disagree.  But, after the time he spent talking with me he could just as easily have said something like - "We get a number of enquiries like this.  Unfortunately time constraints can often get in the way of fulfilling these type of requests.  It would be preferable if you could send me/us a letter with the information you are wanting, and we will get to it as soon as time permits". Or something like that anyway.  I gave him an out when I said to just let me know if it isn't possible.....  As much as I understand they are very busy and do have more important things to be doing, courtesy doesn't cost them anything!

But thanks for making me smile at your last para.....  did definitely lighten the moment for me lol!

[dog_foster_carer]

So, I've just sent copies of all the Heffernan kids marriage and death certificates, photocopies of newspaper articles re a couple of his grandkids along with a spreadsheet of Patrick and Ada and their kids and grandkids (with birth/marriage/death info) to the Lithgow Family History Society Inc. asking them to do some local research into the Heffernan clan, but especially regarding information about Patrick. 

Can anyone think of anything else I can try.

I've noticed that Patrick was declared deceased on two of his kids marriage certificates:

1919 - Vespa
1924 - Lawrence Charles

although he wasn't noted as deceased on Alice Victoria's marriage certificate in 1920 nor on Sidney Arthur's marriage certificate in 1916.

I've looked on NSW BDM and there are two Patrick Heffernan's with a death registration between 1914 (Olive Maude's marriage where he wasn't noted as deceased)-1919 (noted as deceased on Vespa's marriage cert):

1965/1914 - Camden
5320/1915 - Junee

Does anyone think it would be worthwhile to buy a transcription of one or both of these registrations?  Honestly, I really feel the brick wall regarding Patrick is getting higher the more info I get about his family! 

dfc

[majm]

    

So, go ahead, write the letter, enclose photocopy/ies, and ask the questions.... and provide the SSAE and then cross your fingers and do not hold your breath....  The register could be with the Bishop, or it may have being used as a door stop in past years and in need of a good conservator.      

Just put the past several weeks of phone calls down to some "got to go now" hiccups and let the records surface. 

It is entirely possible that the family were not of the denomination you are looking at, in the time frame you are looking at....   

But here's links to the two diocese offices of each of the two main denominations.  I would expect that the 'full' parish registers would be sent to their respective head offices for safe keeping once they are full.

It is also important to remember that these parish registers are NOT public registers, and contain information that is recorded in accordance with Church Laws.   

Roman Catholic
http://www.wf.catholic.org.au/  (Wilcannia-Forbes) includes Trangie and Narromine  BUT NOT Dubbo, Wellington, Bathurst,  Lithgow, etc which are http://www.bathurst.catholic.org.au/ 

Anglican
http://www.bathurstanglican.org.au/Parishes/Parishes.html includes Trangie and Narromine
and Lithgow is in the Sydney Diocese  http://www.sydneyanglicanarchives.com.au/



Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Don't forget that Patrick was noted as OUT OF NSW on themarriage cert for one of his daughters, so that gives you a start date for searching for his death .... he was known to be still alive when Mum gave consent for that marriage 

I cannot find which daughter, but from memory was it Olive, marrying in 1914 at St Pauls, Lithgow (Anglican).

Cheers,  JM

[dog_foster_carer]

   

But here's links to the two diocese offices of each of the two main denominations.  I would expect that the 'full' parish registers would be sent to their respective head offices for safe keeping once they are full.

It is also important to remember that these parish registers are NOT public registers, and contain information that is recorded in accordance with Church Laws.   

Roman Catholic
http://www.wf.catholic.org.au/  (Wilcannia-Forbes) includes Trangie and Narromine  BUT NOT Dubbo, Wellington, Bathurst,  Lithgow, etc which are http://www.bathurst.catholic.org.au/ 

Anglican
http://www.bathurstanglican.org.au/Parishes/Parishes.html includes Trangie and Narromine
and Lithgow is in the Sydney Diocese  http://www.sydneyanglicanarchives.com.au/

Cheers,  JM

Thanks once again JM

I'll definitely follow up with your suggestions as advised above.  And I promise I won't hold my breath lol!

I know I need to learn some patience as I guess all ancestry buffs want answers now rather than having to wait, like me.  As I'm so new to this family history stuff, I haven't had to wait as long for answers as many on this forum have, I'm sure.  Just keep reminding me 'Patience is a virtue'.  Maybe one day I'll get some and be a lot more virtuous lol!

Thanks again for your help and advice, very much appreciated.

dfc