Patrick HEFFERNAN

[majm]

Can I share :

Back in 1997, I thought I had found a "new" rellie .... So I wrote such a letter, enclosing a photo of my late Grandparents and their brother, a favourite Uncle of mine. with this "new" rellie ....  So, I got a lovely hand-written reply, confirming they knew the identity of everyone in the photo.   I was overjoyed, so I phoned one of my rellies (my Uncle in the photo) to share my joy.    They chuckled and chuckled away, and finally they said "You wrote to your own first cousin, He bought THE FARM .....  But we were going to tell you at Christmas"   

Cheers,  JM

[dog_foster_carer]

cheers,
   Ros
(beautiful dog with such lovely eyes  )

Thanks Ros,
That's my beautiful Zoey, she is just the apple of my eye along with my other iggy Beau. I'll put a pic of him up one of these days lol!

And thanks for your reply.  I will take your and jm's advice and spend the weekend composing a letter to that person and a couple of others I found.  I don't have any pics as mine is a very small and distant family.  But it's worth a try as I'm obviously finding it hard to track down any information at all regarding Patrick.  If he truly is as elusive as I'm finding, perhaps they won't know anything either, but here's hoping!!!
dfc

[dog_foster_carer]

A marriage registered DUBBO in 1882 and indexed at NSW BDM  (index prepared by volunteers reading under natural light in the 1930s, reading longhand script from the summary documents sent through to NSW BDM in 1882)

Patrick KEENEHAN and Ada KEITH.   #3688.

I would not rush out and purchase the NSW BDM real deal cert.  If this were likely to be my family I would spend some pennies and seek out the official transcription of that 1882 record.   Likely it will not have been reconciled by NSW BDM, but it will have the details of the location and denomination and other info that can be followed up.

Here's a thread that may help with the likely blanks on a NSW BDM marriage cert from the 1880s.  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html

Cheers,  JM

  Fingers crossed 

I just went to look at this one and checked Ada's birth and she was born in 1872 so not old enough to be this Ada Keith, unless brides of 10yo were allowed back in the day lol    So, gotta keep looking. 

Were most marriages performed in churches in regional/rural areas in the 1890s or was there some sort of registry office/chambers or court house that performed the ceremony as well?  If I wanted to check out church records, how would I start to go about that?

dfc

[majm]

NSW (not sure of elsewhere)
a) Bride 12 years and Groom 14 years were minimum ages at that time.  As minors they needed consent to be given  their behalf as they were not legally old enough to give their own consent.

b) It has never been a requirement that a clergyman needed a Church Building to conduct a marriage.  Clery on a circuit carried their parish registers in special saddles  in the 19th century.  Marriages often in private homes even in hotel parlours....  if the community was still fund raising for their church building.  Diocese (or equiv.) archives often have their completed parishes registers. 

Cheers JM

[dog_foster_carer]

NSW (not sure of elsewhere)

a) Bride 12 years and Groom 14 years were minimum ages at that time.  As minors they needed consent to be given  their behalf as they were not legally old enough to give their own consent.

Cheers JM

Well, I never      lol!!!!!!!  I've learnt another new thing today.  This forum is gonna keep me on my toes, methinks.....   

dfc

[dog_foster_carer]

I'm back again,

Well, I took your advice and wrote a letter to two of the Heffernan families I found and I have had a response from one of them.  I've also got transcriptions of some of the marriage and/or death certificates of Patrick's children [and I'm also contemplating getting transcriptions of the rest]. 

So, I've found no further information regarding Patrick as yet but I may be getting closer.  It turns out that Harold Heffernan [1918-1964], who is Patrick's first grandson from his oldest son Sidney Arthur Heffernan aka Snow, was a councilman for the Lithgow City Council for a number of years prior to his death and he was selected to attend the Duke of Edinburgh conference in 1956 at Oxford University in England. Harold and his wife Ysobel [aka Billie] also met the Royals when they visited the area in 1954.

On the certificate transcriptions that I have received so far, all the kids have stated that they were born in Lithgow or in Trangie/Portland/Narromine which are in the Lithgow/Dubbo general areas.  It'll be interesting to see where the others state they were born when I received the rest of the transcriptions.

These transcriptions state that Patrick was either a labourer, station hand, machinist or baker and on Vespa's marriage certificate in 1919 it states Patrick is deceased but on all the other transcriptions, nothing is mentioned about him being deceased.  Also, on Olive's marriage certificate it states in the notes that "the consent of Ada Heffernan, being the mother of the bride, was given in writing to the marriage, father out of NSW".

Another thing, Patrick's supposed last son William Sidney Heffernan's [1914-1982] second marriage transcription states that his parents are "Sidney Heffernan and Ethel Simpson" and not 'Patrick Heffernan and Ada Selmes' as first thought although William was the informant on Ada Heffernan nee Selmes's death transcription and he states he is Ada's son. 

Also, on Ada's death certificate it states the she and Patrick were married in Wallerawang when she was 21.  So, it's all a bit confusing as there are no birth records that I can find for any of their kids.

Is there anyone in the Lithgow and/or Narromine/Trangie areas that may be able to either have a look or ask at the local libraries for information regarding the Heffernans as I think that because Harold was so well known there that there could/should be some references/history regarding his family?  Or can someone advise me on how to proceed with finding out from either the council or the library if there is any information on the family available?  Or is there a local Lithgow/Trangie/Narromine family history type association that could help?

Sorry for the long read but I figured I should put as much info as I've found out here.

Thanks for reading
dfc

[majm]

Hi there,

May I please ask you to list the NSW BDM docs you are now holding....  Perhaps into three groups (births if any, deaths, marriages) with the leading surname and the NSW BDM ref no. and the year.   

If you get the chance, perhaps also, check these again, looking at the "informant/s" relationship to the person ..... so for example, is Patrick the informant for all/some/none, and when did he stop being the informant (perhaps indicating when he left the relationship). 

Re Ada's death cert info stating her marriage, with the informant stating he was her son.... I wonder if he was her grandson? .   It is important to remember that info given to the funeral director (the one who lodges the paperwork) is only as reliable as the informant's own knowledge, which if a family member is info given at a time of grief.   There was no systematic check of  the info.  NSW BDM's function was (still is to) record the info provided to it and to store the info safely, it was not to verify that the info was accurate.   

Lithgow family history group: http://www.lisp.com.au/~ldfhs/
http://dubbofamilyhistory.org.au/index.php

Portland is near Lithgow. 
Trangie and Narromine are near Dubbo.
Lithgow is NOT near Dubbo.

Olive HEFFERNAN married William BRENNAN in 1914.  and Vesper HEFFERNAN married Alfred RAFFAN in 1919.   So, it seems that their father, Patrick died 1914-1919, but perhaps not in NSW.

These transcriptions state that Patrick was either a labourer, station hand, machinist or baker and on Vespa's marriage certificate in 1919 it states Patrick is deceased but on all the other transcriptions, nothing is mentioned about him being deceased.  Also, on Olive's marriage certificate it states in the notes that "the consent of Ada Heffernan, being the mother of the bride, was given in writing to the marriage, father out of NSW".

Another thing, Patrick's supposed last son William Sidney Heffernan's [1914-1982] second marriage transcription states that his parents are "Sidney Heffernan and Ethel Simpson" and not 'Patrick Heffernan and Ada Selmes' as first thought although William was the informant on Ada Heffernan nee Selmes's death transcription and he states he is Ada's son. 

 

[Neil Todd]

Long walk from Lithgow to Trangie  Ada Selmes was born 1899 at Gunning to Spencer and Annie along with a few more siblings. so if William was born 1914 then Ada was only 15. Not impossiblebut. There seems to be a strong marriage tie between the Selmes ladies born in other areas but married in the Lithgow, Dubbo, Narromine area? What is the connection because their is no marriage listed for Ada Selmes, ANYWHERE, did she use another first name?

Lithgow council and or family history society would have something on your Heffernan if he held a position there.

Neil

Whoops crossed messages Majm

[sparrett]

Birth

HEFFERNAN, William S.
Yr. 1914
Father-Not listed
Mother Ethel E.
At Lithgow
Reg. 34019

Death
HEFFERNAN, Sidney Arthur
Yr 1971
Father Patrick
Mother Ada
At Lithgow
Reg  64878

Sue