Author Topic: Patrick HEFFERNAN  (Read 21347 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Patrick HEFFERNAN
« Reply #45 on: Friday 02 May 14 01:19 BST (UK) »
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-deceased-estates-and-related-records/indexes-to-deceased-estate-files   

"Z series files

When you have located an entry with a 'Z' number in the item column, record both the 'Z' file number and the [20/-] item number. This is enough information to request the file in the Western Sydney Reading Room. We cannot determine whether the file has survived until the container (held at the Western Sydney Records Centre) is checked."   



Ros, the online index has it as P Heffernan, and it is only in the remarks as Patrick.  So, if you pre-order,  :) that would be P. Heffernan   Remarks "File now at Z08091 [20/7004].  "Z" entry lists name as Patrick and locality as Murrumburrah.     I have not found the Trove notice  :-X  for the Probate.

Fingers crossed .... I have been known to be way off on the wrong tangent....  :)

Oh dear, NO deceased Estate, and  Probate Packet it seems points to JM off on the wrong tangent.... very sorry Ros, and of course, very sorry Julie.   :-[    Was there a death cert  found at SRNSW?  Would it be # 18925  (aged 72 years, registered Young)

Fingers crossed that there's new info on the transcriptions....

Cheers,  JM
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Offline rosball

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Re: Patrick HEFFERNAN
« Reply #46 on: Friday 02 May 14 02:07 BST (UK) »
No need to be sorry JM - I learnt a lot and we eliminated one possibility.  It was a good a guess as any  :) He was a labourer near Murrumburrah and was in the Young Sacred Heart Hospital near his death.  There wasn't a death cert included.

cheers,
   Ros

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Offline dog_foster_carer

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Re: Patrick HEFFERNAN
« Reply #47 on: Friday 02 May 14 02:48 BST (UK) »
It just amazes me that somebody can be this invisible. No record of his birth that we know of, no record of his marriage, no birth record of his kids, (I even wrote to NSW BDM and had them conduct a search for Vespa Heffernan's birth record - zilch) and if there is a death record, how do we find the date/place with nothing else to go on.  Does this sort of thing happen very often? So frustrating!  ???
Selmes / Matson / MacGregor / Nottle families - England and Australia
Whittaker / Meakin / Flood families - England and Ireland
Mitchell / Thomson / McGill / Auld families - Scotland and Australia
Auld / Scott / Robson families - England
Rawson / Grady / Geary families - England and Ireland
Wolf / Tag / Oberdorf families - Germany
Milton / Watt / Laurence / Bremner families - Scotland
Raffan / Wood / Fordyce / Murray families - Scotland

Offline dog_foster_carer

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Re: Patrick HEFFERNAN
« Reply #48 on: Friday 02 May 14 03:49 BST (UK) »
I'm just wondering if someone can point me in the right direction. I've just been looking at Patrick's father-in-law's death certificate and it states that he was a baker and that his father before him was a baker. On my grandmother's marriage certificate is states that her father's (Patrick) occupation was a baker too. Is there possibly some way of searching down that track to see if there is a link?  Perhaps Patrick was apprenticed to his father-in-law to learn the trade and maybe that's how he and my great grandmother Ada met. I feel that they may have met in the Tenterfield, Bathurst or Lithgow areas as Ada was still having siblings born around the time I feel she met and partnered up with Patrick.  Is there a bakers union/guild that would have records re apprenticeships or employment for bakers around the 1890s?
I figure it's worth a try.
dfc

I forgot to mention, I'm waiting on transcriptions of two death certs and two marriage cert of some of his kids, hoping that may tell me something but still may be a week or so away before I get them.
Selmes / Matson / MacGregor / Nottle families - England and Australia
Whittaker / Meakin / Flood families - England and Ireland
Mitchell / Thomson / McGill / Auld families - Scotland and Australia
Auld / Scott / Robson families - England
Rawson / Grady / Geary families - England and Ireland
Wolf / Tag / Oberdorf families - Germany
Milton / Watt / Laurence / Bremner families - Scotland
Raffan / Wood / Fordyce / Murray families - Scotland


Offline majm

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Re: Patrick HEFFERNAN
« Reply #49 on: Friday 02 May 14 04:05 BST (UK) »
Yes, happens OFTEN .... particularly 1870s to 1930s .....

The paperwork system went something like this

1. You went to town to get the essentials, and went around to the court house to register your new baby.   You gave the info verbally across a wide counter in the Sheriff's admin area.
2. Depending on who was on duty depends on how accurate the info was recorded.  If the Sheriff or his offsider was a long standing local, who attended same Church as you, then pretty good chance your info is easily found by us in the 21st century.  If the clerk asking the questions was new on the job, a poor speller, and perhaps not a local, then the info can be harder to find as there was a great deal of creativity with spelling.   
3. So you answer all the questions, your own schooling was not of a university standard (compulsory primary schooling starts in NSW in late 1870s) so you have no idea WHAT was actually recorded, as you are not able to read 'upside down' as the clerk kept the big book facing him while he wrote the answers down.
4. The book is swung around to face you.   You are holding your baby, watching your other children running wild, your husband is about to get into an argument with someone else you spot, so you SIGN or make your mark, trusting that the info is as per your own verbal statements just made.
THEN thats not all.....
There's the back office .....
Once every quarter (beginning April, beginning July, beginning Oct, and beginning Jan) the Deputy registrar is MEANT to transfer that info and remit the Quarterly returns to the Registrar General.   BY THE POSTAL SYSTEM, to Sydney.      Remember the Bush Rangers, well, they also nicked the ROYAL MAIL BAGS.... not just the Gold Dust....   So quarterly returns could get lost right from the beginning of civil registration.    Then there's floods, fires, etc.   Then there's lazy clerks .... and NO protocols for following up NON receipt of summaries....  And then there's summary returns that were received and not actioned.....  eg poor handwriting, lack of staff numbers, or simply staff avoiding making the effort....

Then there's the indexes....  The current online index stems from the index that volunteers made in the 1930s ....  yes, the Early Church Records date from 1787 .... indexed in the 1930s .... ink bleeds, torn pages, misplaced records .....

We are lucky there is ANY index  ::)  ::)   

Marriages were meant to be registered at the local registrar's by the clergy ....

 and Deaths ... well .... the householder was meant to report the death to the registrar so that a pro temp certificate could be provided to the funeral director for the burial.    If a sudden death then the police became involved and sometimes, despite the Sheriff's office usually being the registrars centre too (same person/s doing dual roles), "they forgot" ....

I think you should consider the marriage I mentioned earlier, and once you have an official transcription of it, then try the following thread's tips

KEENEHAN (yes, could be long hand transcription errors) KEITH  It is from 1882, and registered Dubbo DISTRICT.   NSW BDM districts were very large in those rural areas, and were different from the electoral districts, the lands districts, the pastoral districts, the police districts....  The Colonial Administration was very cumbersome, and no department had same geographical boundaries as the next one.   (#3688,  Patrick KEENEHAN and Ada KEITH, registered Dubbo 1882)

I am suggesting that Keenehan could be transcription error for Heffernan and Keith could be similar for Selmes.      I have seen far worse.     You know Ada's parents .... and it is possible there's going to be hurdles with blanks on the 1882 rural marriage.   DON'T PANIC ...

 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=660501.0

Cheers,  JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Patrick HEFFERNAN
« Reply #50 on: Friday 02 May 14 04:17 BST (UK) »
A marriage registered DUBBO in 1882 and indexed at NSW BDM  :) (index prepared by volunteers reading under natural light in the 1930s, reading longhand script from the summary documents sent through to NSW BDM in 1882)

Patrick KEENEHAN and Ada KEITH.   #3688.

I would not rush out and purchase the NSW BDM real deal cert.  If this were likely to be my family I would spend some pennies and seek out the official transcription of that 1882 record.   Likely it will not have been reconciled by NSW BDM, but it will have the details of the location and denomination and other info that can be followed up.

Here's a thread that may help with the likely blanks on a NSW BDM marriage cert from the 1880s.  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html

Cheers,  JM
  Fingers crossed  :)
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline dog_foster_carer

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Re: Patrick HEFFERNAN
« Reply #51 on: Friday 02 May 14 08:05 BST (UK) »
Me again with another thought.

I looked up one of Patrick's grandchildrens electoral record, this grandchild died a couple of years ago but there is still a current Heffernan at the same address as was listed in 1980. I found the phone number in Telstra white pages, would it be improper of me to ring them explaining who I am, what I'm doing and asking them if they know anything about Patrick?
Selmes / Matson / MacGregor / Nottle families - England and Australia
Whittaker / Meakin / Flood families - England and Ireland
Mitchell / Thomson / McGill / Auld families - Scotland and Australia
Auld / Scott / Robson families - England
Rawson / Grady / Geary families - England and Ireland
Wolf / Tag / Oberdorf families - Germany
Milton / Watt / Laurence / Bremner families - Scotland
Raffan / Wood / Fordyce / Murray families - Scotland

Offline rosball

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Re: Patrick HEFFERNAN
« Reply #52 on: Friday 02 May 14 08:11 BST (UK) »
No not improper but I would be inclined to write a letter - it gives them time to digest the information and decide what to do.  I have found that when I have included scans of family photos of ancestors that it is more successful as it grabs their interest (even if they weren't previously interested in family history).

But who knows?  Worth a try  :)

cheers,
   Ros
(beautiful dog with such lovely eyes  :)  )
Let's not tolerate bullying !
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Offline majm

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Re: Patrick HEFFERNAN
« Reply #53 on: Friday 02 May 14 08:12 BST (UK) »
If that was ME you had found in the white pages, I would much prefer you to write me a letter, (typed would be OK) a short note, asking me if I was related to ......... and giving them a very short outline of how you fit into this particular family (careful you don't give too much info as you too are entitled to privacy) and offering me a stamped addressed envelope to reply to you.   You could of course, give your phone number in your letter. 

Then IF I were to get such a letter,  I would DROP EVERYTHING and phone you up, and we would have a very long yarn on the phone.  ;D

That way, you are giving THEM the chance to absorb some of the info that you are finding.   :) and have absorbed already. 

Cheers,  JM

The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.