Joseph Ralph WATSON

[scotiagirl]

Hi westwood21

Well, I'm still not 100% sure that we're talking about the same Joseph Watson/Ralph Beverly Watson but....

I have a document that says he arrived in Quebec in June 1906.  Was your Joseph Watson still in England when his second child was born in 1907?  Thanks.

[Westwood21]

Hiya,
I think I can pretty definitely say yes.  I'm sure my mother, Joan (let's come clean here...) would have alluded to his absence at the time of her birth in Jan 1907 in later years.  She was a very open character.  I remember her telling me about a time in Cottingham when (as a child) she was aware of being watched covertly from someone across the road who she was certain was her absent father.  Cottingham is between Beverley and Hull and Ellis and Harry had a house there for a time (must have been after 1914 so maybe Harry was away at WW1).  If that is so, it puts Joseph back in England at some point, but I have no date and no method of verification.  However, my strong hunch is that my grandfather is the Joseph on the Virginian in 1910 travelling from Liverpool to Quebec.  The timing sounds right and I would put my money on it.
I apologise for being all guesswork, but it makes sense to me that he might have returned from the Boer War in 1902 (or before), married Ellis in 1904, had Skidder in 1905 and Joan in 1907, and then absconded to Canada in 1910.  I know you want proof but that's what I would work on personally.  Good luck.  Keep me posted - please!

[scotiagirl]

Well, well, well... So things might be getting a little clearer now.  I had pretty much eliminated the Joseph Watson who arrived in 1910 as my Ralph Watson for a few reasons.  First was the document I mentioned before that listed the time of my Joseph's arrival at Quebec as June 1906.  In the few documents that I have seen for my Joseph (aka Joseph Ralph, then Ralph Beverly), he's listed as single. The Joseph that arrived in 1910 is listed (in the Canadian passenger lists 1865-1935) as married and gives his destination as Battleford Saskatchewan and that he intends to farm out there. So if your Joseph Watson is the one who arrived in 1910 and is the same one who was married to Ellis, then it would seem that your Joseph is not the same as my Joseph Ralph Watson/Ralph Beverly Watson.  Would you agree?

[heywood]

Sorry, just running out the door but yes, on Ralph Beverly Watson's enlistment papers, he says that he has previous military experience: he's a South African veteran (yeomry).  Thanks.

Hello again,

What fascinating developments. Whilst I agree that there could still be doubts, I also think there are still reasons to think that the two gents could be the same; the above being one of the reasons.
I presume that Joseph is named as father on Joan's birth certificate. He may have visited Canada and returned.

Interestingly, I thought I would search on a pay site ( no subscription though) and there is a a Ralph Beverley Watson in New Zealand electoral rolls in 1935. It could be very possible that there is more than one RBW but the London one disappears after 1930. 
Heywood

[Westwood21]

Sorry, been a bit tied up and I feel I need to go through all the 23 pages of previous posts yet again with the latest developments in my head.  I'll have a search for Joan's birth certificate - not certain that I have it.  The thing that makes me question whether the two Josephs are one and the same is that I don't recall the name Ralph being mentioned and it doesn't appear on his marriage certificate (to Ellis Boyes).  I'm not ruling it out though.  BTW, I am positive that my Joseph Watson was Joan's father.
The married Joseph who sailed to Canada in 1910 intending to farm ticks boxes for me, given that I believe it would be unlikely for him to have been divorced from Ellis at that time and he came from a farming background.  Also I have the faded photograph of him in Beverley with Ellis and his two young children.
If I have further views after I've reread through all the posts (with the possibility that the two Josephs are not one and the same), I'll get back.
Curiouser and curiouser.....

[heywood]

Good morning.  I'm totally new at this but here goes... I am researching my great uncle, JOSEPH RALPH WATSON, born October 23, 1883 in Hull, England.  He was the eldest son of Joseph Watson and Lavinia Sanderson.  He was going by the name of Ralph Beverly Watson when he married Beulah Bahnsen in Ottawa, Canada on January 2, 1915.  I have some information on his service with the Canadian Expeditionary Forces during WW1 and his subsequent discharge.  He was living in Vancouver, Canada in 1919 but after that, he seems to have disappeared.  Across page 1 of his military service record, "deceased 17-11-57" is written.  I can't seem to find any documentation corroborating that death date.  I haven't been able to find any death notice for him in Canada and was wondering if he might possibly have returned to England in 1920 or so.  Would anyone have any information about him from 1920 on?  Thanks.

Just going back to the beginning. I notice from a tree with this information that his birth details  - 1883 and Hull is based on his WW 1 information and his marriage. Is this confirmed?

I think I am going round in circles and perhaps need to reread.
From memory, Scotiagirl, you have your Mr Watson with his father and brother in Canada who are the same father and brother to Westwood's Mr Watson in Yorkshire 

[Westwood21]

Hi,
I can confirm that my grandfather, Joseph Watson, was born in 1883.  My head is buzzing from searching through old papers and correspondence but I know I came across a note from my great aunt, Jessie Boyes, saying that Joey (Joseph) was born in Oct/Nov/Dec 1883 so October 23rd looks good.  I am now thinking that my Joseph and Scotiagirl's Joseph must surely be the same because I absolutely know my family is related to the Sandersons (i.e. Lavinia Sanderson, Joseph's mother).  I couldn't find Joan Watson's birth certificate but I did find her marriage certificate to Brian Moody and her father was named as Joseph Watson (frustratingly, again, no middle name).
I see Joseph Watson Snr was a witness, amongst others, at Joseph's marriage to Ellis Boyes in 1904 (marriage certificate).
I'm sorry to lower the tone but I found a letter from Jessie Boyes (see above) to her niece Joan Moody (Watson) talking about the father she barely knew and it says there was a secret drink problem with his mother that was visited upon the son.  I've run out of time right now but I think that one of the posts refers to drink.  I am merely trying to find links (clutching at straws?!).  I have also found a very endearing illustrated (by Joey) card written to Ellis in 1904 when they were banned from seeing each other.  Jessie says they were very much in love - well, that's a relief!

[scotiagirl]

Hi Westwood21

Sorry, I thought you had said that you didn't know who the mother of your Joseph Watson was.  If it was Lavinia Sanderson then that clinches it.  Lavinia Sanderson is my Joseph Watson's mother and it is stated as such on several documents.  So we are related after all!!!   I'm still having trouble with the two dates of arrival in Canada.  On documents I have, Joseph Ralph lists himself as an insurance salesman.  He never claimed to be a farmer.  I'm not sure about the Joseph Watson (married) that came over in 1910 bound for Battleford Saskatchewan to farm.  Wow... I'm going to have to go over my notes again.

Heywood

Yes, I have that information from those documents and also a 1912 Detroit Border Crossing document which says he was born around 1884 in Beverly, England.

Must fly but I'll get back to you soon.

[scotiagirl]

Hello heywood.

That's very interesting information about the New Zealand angle.  After all I've read lately about Ralph Beverly Watson/Joseph Watson I wouldn't be at all surprised if he wasn't the same RBW.  Much appreciated.