Lost Gt Gt Grandfather

[Retpara]

Hi Heywood and Mabel, thanks again for your input. It would be the second part of your post regarding Eliza Davies and William Youd, it seems that they are the ones that married. The reason being is that when she married my gt gt grandfather Joseph Winter in 1867 she was classed a widow and her fathers name was William Davies on the marriage certificate. This will be the branch I will have to research later, as the main person I cannot trace is my gt gt grandfather as this is my family name and it is a great pity it might end here.

[AMBLY]

For ref: this is the older topic on the search for Joseph
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=540524.0

Hi Retpara,

Because there is such mystery surrounding your Joseph Bayles WINTER……

• His birth/baptism? His whereabouts in the  1841 and 1851 Census?
• The Surname variants he used at different  times and why?
• His whereabouts after your last sighting in 1861….or is that, 1867?
• Where was he in 1871, if Eliza (if that's her in the 1871 Census and it certainly seems so) is really still a married woman in that census?
• What became of Eliza and the  other children after 1871 : Ann 5, Daniel 2, William 1 - were they Joseph's & how were their births registered?

By confirming that it is Eliza YOUD/DAVIS in 1871  - an excellent find by Heywood - and now quite closely looking into Eliza  and those 3 children, is not so much about researching that line at the expense of finding Joseph, but rather looking for any clue, any footprint, no matter how small,  as to what happened to Joseph and narrowing down the times in which it may have happened.

Just to clarify, do you already have that 1867 Marriage certificate of Joseph to Eliza?  If so, what was his age, occupation and father's name given as?

Cheers
AMBLY

[Retpara]

Hi Ambly, Many thanks for your interest in trying to help. What I have done is attached cropped copies of the two marriage certificates for Joseph Bayles Winter 1861 and 1867, as I believe you are not allowed to paste full copies on here. I also have him on the 1861 census, but nothing before this date or after his second marriage to Eliza.
Many thanks,
Retpara.

(N.B. If you happen to come across a Joseph Winter also born same year and in Merthyr Tydfil to a John and Margaret Winter (nee Lisles) this is the wrong Joseph Winter thanks).

[Retpara]

2nd Marriage Certificate.

[Retpara]

1st Marriage Certificate.

[heywood]

Hi again,
Where is he in 1861 please?

Sorry- found him - remembered about Bayles!
Heywood

[Mabel Bagshawe]

now here's something interesting - death report in the Merthyr papers from 27 August 1864, for a James Harrison Youd, in his 54th year, of Bridge St, a silk dyer. It says on Tuesday last, which would have been 23 August, two days later than the date given for William in the probate registry.

I can also see reference to the Bridge St Dye House, next to the Carriers Arms, run by an E H Youd , late of Liverpool, in the 1850s. So there are other Youds about, even if not showing up in the census, who may have a William closer in age to Eliza than the one in Bridge St

[heywood]

At the moment, it is difficult to see Eliza and the children later - maybe they all emigrated?

I would agree with Ambly's suggestion re the birth certificates of these children. You  need to see if Joseph is named and his occupation for any clues.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Now on Historical Directories -Samuel Youd has taken on the silk dyeing business at 37 Bridge St by 1868. Given he is from the Wem/Ellesmere area as well, i think he must be related. However can' t see he has a son William either