Author Topic: Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee  (Read 8592 times)

Offline judb

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Re: Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee
« Reply #9 on: Friday 18 April 14 01:01 BST (UK) »
Just because occasionally there is more of a clue than is immediately apparent I wonder if you would please transcribe the death certificate.

As to his names, I doubt that it would have been him changing the names, rather that the various people writing down his name/s just wrote more or less what they heard, or what they transcribed from another document.  His criminal records state that his level of literacy as "Imp" - imperfect - so he may not have checked what was being written. 

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ozeannie

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Re: Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee
« Reply #10 on: Friday 18 April 14 01:07 BST (UK) »
I don't have the actual certificate, I only paid for the extract.
Here is what it says:

Family Name: LINDSAY
Given Name(s): Frederick
Sex: Unknown
Event :DEATH
Father's Name: Unknown
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Family Name:
Spouse's Given Name(s):
Age: 42
Birth Place: ENGLAND
Death Place:
Registration Year: 1854
Registration Number: 1155


Offline ozeannie

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Re: Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee
« Reply #11 on: Friday 18 April 14 01:49 BST (UK) »
Judb:

Quote
I can't see a report of the case which resulted in transportation.

Here it is, I found it after all (image attached)

Image removed to prevent breach of copyright






Offline ozeannie

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Re: Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee
« Reply #12 on: Friday 18 April 14 01:58 BST (UK) »
and his acquittal .... though it doesn't state the alleged offence..

Image removed to prevent breach of copyright


Offline judb

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Re: Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee
« Reply #13 on: Friday 18 April 14 08:25 BST (UK) »
Good finds, ozeannie  I was using "Exeter Assizes" as the search, which is why I didn't find it although I did do a search each for "LINDSEY" and "LINDSAY" which were not found by the search engine.  Never mind.

You may find a little more on the actual death certificate, although it's a bit of a long shot so depends on whether you want to spend the $20  :-\   However perhaps the informant may have been able to put in some further detail.  At least you would know where he's buried.  This is what is asked for:
Deaths
 Date and place of death;
 name and surname;
 occupation of the deceased;
 sex and age;
 cause of death,
 duration of illness,
 medical attendant by whom certified and when he last saw deceased;
 name and surname of parents (if known) including mother's maiden surname        signature, description and address of the person who gave the information;  signature of deputy registrar, date and where registered,
 when and where buried,
 undertaker whom certified;
 name and religion of Minister, or names of witnesses of burial;
 place of birth of the deceased and how long he or she resided in the Australian colonies or states (stating which),
 name of spouse,
 place of marriage,
 age at marriage;
 names and ages of children of the deceased.

Given the circumstances of the baby's birth perhaps Frederick may not have even known he was a father.

The image for his acquittal court appearance gives the crime as "larceny"

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ozeannie

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Re: Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee
« Reply #14 on: Friday 18 April 14 08:50 BST (UK) »
Yep thanks - understand all of that, but I'm not inclined to spend the $20, given the small amount on the extract, I doubt there would be much more on the certificate - maybe perhaps where he is buried and the date of death but that is all... I went for the 99c "peep" to find out if parents were mentioned (didn't think it likely as the informant was unlikely to know). HOWEVER had the parents been mentioned and they were for example William and Mary I would have then known that either this chap wasn't mine, or that Jane and John Lindsay weren't my fella's parents - the fact that so little is registered sort of supports my theory that this is him. I also agree he probably didn't know he was a father.

I have applied for the death certificate of Agnes Roberts (McMillan). I know her date & location of her death and burial already. I'm just curious to see if Frederick is listed as a child - he may not be as technically he is not a "child of the marriage" - and/or if indeed Frederick is even the informant, being the eldest child....also any other juicy bits that might be on that one.

Offline judb

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Re: Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee
« Reply #15 on: Friday 18 April 14 09:02 BST (UK) »
I agree that it's unlikely you would find more information on the actual certificate.

In the issue of Trewman's Exeter Flying Post or Plymouth and Cornish Advertiser, Thursday, January 5, 1837 a week earlier than the report of the acquittal, there is reference to the Devon County Sessions having a large number of prisoners to deal with who seem together to have "entered into a plantation, in the night time, for the purpose of destroying game".

So it looks as though poaching was the crime.  Seems to me to the credit of the Court that the 'prisoners' were dealt with separately.  I would think it would have been very easy to lump them altogether.

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ozeannie

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Re: Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee
« Reply #16 on: Friday 18 April 14 09:06 BST (UK) »
Yes I saw that same report :)  Sounds like it was quite a night    ;D

Offline ozeannie

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Re: Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee
« Reply #17 on: Friday 10 July 15 01:44 BST (UK) »
Its' been a long time since I was on here, didn't realise... I had forgotten about this thread. For the sake of completeness, I can report that I got the death certificate of Agnes Roberts and it lists 5 sons, 2 daughters living and 1 daughter deceased. No names, but she had 4 sons with William Roberts and 3 daughters, one of whom predeceased her, so the 5th son would be Frederick, which is nice to see that he was recognised on her death certificate. It was one of the Roberts sons who informed on the certificate.