HAVILAND

[majm]

I think Ancestry Indexer is simply following SR NSW lead....

The connection was made by the indexing team at the NSW Archives Office, decades ago ....  see the following
http://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/e/F18c_e-18.htm#P8056_266118

From the old version of the ColSec index

Cheers,  JM

[judb]

Thanks JM.  I was hoping it was someone else as well as our friends on Ancestry.  At least we know where he was till 1824.

I'm not sure if I'd like the title "Government Castrator"  - although perhaps there are those who might like to take up office in that role if it meant what it could mean.  But you didn't hear it from me.

Judith

[bungleberry]

Thanks MAJM and JUDB for all that intriguing stuff.

I'm afraid you're right, MAJM, and that, failing a windfall (perhaps via Gloucestershire FHS?), the odds are that I will probably never know if the transportee was my direct ancestor. Too many damn Richards.

Despite this hiatus, the good news is that it's well established that the origin of all the Winstone, GLS HAVILANDs was from Poole, DOR. They, in turn, were an offshoot of a prominent family in Guernsey, CI, and that lot started off from the Cotentin peninsula, F.

Cheers. 

 

[majm]

Hi there,

Records here in UK reveal that my g-g-g-grandfather Richard HAVILAND was transported ......  July 1806 on the 'Fortune'.

the odds are that I will probably never know if the transportee was my direct ancestor.

Are you saying you had not yet found UK documentation to support your direct line back to at least one of your g g g grandfathers whom you suspect was a Richard HAVILAND, and you were hoping to obtain that documentation in among the official records for Richard HAVILAND, the Castrator of Government Stock ?   

I am quite sure that the chap on the Fortune in 1806 is the one buried in Nov 1832.  I have no knowledge of his parents.  My on going interest is in those (crew and passengers) who arrived per the Lord Melville in 1817 (including the lass Ann EVANS, once a prospective bride for Richard Haviland). 

ADD


http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yqi/ 
Locating the Industrial Revolution: Inducement and Response By Eric Lionel Jones  pages 137 & 138 "Were Bougeois Values Retained and Transmitted during Downward Mobility" mentions the Richard Haviland who was transported 1806.

Cheers,  JM 

[judb]

Not sure if we have already had this information - apologies if we have - but it might help.

NSW Convict Index states that Richard HAVILAND, per Fortune, 1806, had been tried in Gloucester.

Judith

[bungleberry]

Sorry, I appreciate that I was imprecise.

I do know that my g-g-g-grandfather was a Richard HAVILAND. However there are several in GLS. I had deduced on negative* evidence that the transportee (Yep, tried @ Gloucester Assizes, JUDB) must have been 'my' Richard. But now I see that "It ain't necessarily so". I certainly need to revisit it. GFHS has an open day next month, which could be useful. Anyway, a good excuse for another stayover in the sleepy Winstone area!
   
* negative because the others b around the same date (approx. 1768) had been tied up to different families - some by me and some by other researchers, including the normally highly dependable HAVILAND website (havilands.org) and some less reliable posts on an Ancestry board.

My renewed thanks. 

[judb]

Good luck with the FHS day, Winstone looks very nice and near to Cirencester, one of my favourite places.  I love the Cotswolds - so beautiful, and now it's April.............sigh..........

Let's know if you ever solve the mystery. Perhaps what we've found may help other HAVILANDs. Judith

[bungleberry]

As a parting shot, I thought you folks might just be interested in this from the Gloucester Journal of Monday 15 October 1801 (found by my wife, who is a much better researcher than me, in FindMyPast):

Richard Haviland, horse dealer, of Winstone, in this county, was on Monday last taken into custody for stealing two carthorses from Mr Hall of Througham, but at Cirencester he found means to escape from the constable. Twenty guineas reward being, however, offered for his apprehension, we hope he will be speedily retaken.

[judb]

Do you know if he was re-captured?  And do you think this is the chap who was transported?  Richard, the government employee in NSW certainly seemed to become a very law-abiding person.

Judith