HAVILAND

[majm]

I think your chap died Nov 1832  EV EL YNN versus HAV IL AND plus 64 v 67 for age at death is just too close when considering these records were based on Oral declarations ... even ship of arrival is close ...

Cheers JM

[bungleberry]

MAJM - I agree. That death does look likely. Wonder if/who he did finally marry? As regards the spelling, I have seven or eight recorded in my lot, and I know from someone in New Jersey who has been running the HAVILAND website carefully for years. that there are more. The name is well researched especially in USA (including a dna study) and there's a one-name group here in UK. Olivia de Havilland, her sister Joan Fontaine, and the aeroplane man, are my 14th cousins once removed!

But I'm reviewing the situation regarding whether Thomas was Richard's father or whether I've gone off down completely the wrong track.

Thanks again.   

[~MERLIN~]

A maybe for his death.
4793/1859    HAVILAND    RICHARD    father FRANCIS    mother MARY   district  RAYMOND TERRACE

I suppose a death in 1859 is just about possible?

Not your guy... which is quite obvious from the NSW BDM.
The above death is that of an infant.

Birth:

HAVILAND Richard b. 1858 RAYMOND TERRACE #11686
Parents: Francis & Mary

Death:

HAVILAND Richard d. 1859 RAYMOND TERRACE #4793
Parents: Francis & Mary

Another son to the same parents a few years later was given the same name:

HAVILAND Richard b. 1862 RAYMOND TERRACE #12924   
Parents: Francis & Mary

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search

[bungleberry]

OK, so we already know that a Richard had a son Francis, and now that he in turn had a son Richard who d as an infant in 1859 as an infant?

My intractable prob (which it now appears I have to resolve here in UK), is whether my g-g-g-gf Richard was s of Thomas (1738-1801) and Mary (1741-1786) as I had thought, or perhaps of Francis (1701-1787) and Mary (app 1712-1788). If the latter, my tree backwards goes haywire. It's certainly possible although at present I don't have a Richard of that marriage.

All were originally from Winstone, GLS, as were so many others. Hmmm . . . 

[~MERLIN~]

OK, so we already know that a Richard had a son Francis, and now that he in turn had a son Richard who d as an infant in 1859 as an infant?

I don't know what you are referring to in the above statement 

My point was to show you that the death was not your Richard & that he was the child of Francis HAVILAND who married Mary FERGUSON in reply #2 above.

This Francis HAVILAND actually belongs to another aussie researcher & not the son of your Richard:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=34805

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=175307.0

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=637141.0

[bungleberry]

Familysearch shows that a Richard (in my previous I did write a Richard) was father of Francis who m Mary Ferguson on 26 April 1854.

I must apologise that I'm just not as smart as you obviously are (as demonstrated by your two posts).

endof 

[~MERLIN~]

OK, so we already know that a Richard had a son Francis, and now that he in turn had a son Richard who d as an infant in 1859 as an infant?

Familysearch shows that a Richard (in my previous I did write a Richard) was father of Francis who m Mary Ferguson on 26 April 1854.

I must apologise that I'm just not as smart as you obviously are (as demonstrated by your two posts).

endof

You had a question mark at the end of the sentence, which to me suggested you possibly needed further clarification.

So, I tried to give you a guiding hand with the explanation & links.

[~MERLIN~]

Richard EVELYNN ex the Fortune, aged 67, buried Nov 23, 1832, in the Bathurst District (JM notes that Bathurst district at that time included the Abercrombie ) As per Convict Death Register 1826-1879, J E KEANE .   The NSW SRO index has the vessel as “Fontaines” 
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=65

I think your chap died Nov 1832  EV EL YNN versus HAV IL AND plus 64 v 67 for age at death is just too close when considering these records were based on Oral declarations ... even ship of arrival is close ...

I totally agree with you JM 

I have a copy of the original Convict Death Register page in front of me at the moment 

[majm]

Excuse me for butting back in

Bungleberry Do you actually have the West Bargo records or are you relying on the index...

 What ship of arrival for the West Bargo applications?

Cheers JM

PS I am quite sure that 1832 burial in Vol 16 is C of E and IS Abercrombie Ie NOT West Bargo.

Records here in UK reveal that my g-g-g-grandfather Richard HAVILAND was transported for stealing a horse, arriving in NSW in July 1806 on the 'Fortune'. Then things aren't so clear.

It appears that he behaved himself, and was subsequently pardoned. Several Colsec records show that he was paid by the govt for castrating cattle. Although he had a wife and family here in UK, in 1818 he apparently requested permission to marry at Paramatta. I have no info on to whom, but it probably took place because in the 1830s he may be the guy listed as father of Francis. Later he is shown as owning 20 acres at West Bargo, NSW.

As mentioned, I don’t know anything about a marriage nor, in fact, about his death. Were there more children? Do I have distant rellies in your fair country?

I’d welcome anything at all you folks can add to what little I’ve been able to find!