Author Topic: Phillip Harman Baptism  (Read 2390 times)

Offline Petles

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Phillip Harman Baptism
« on: Tuesday 18 February 14 11:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
I am trying to find the baptism of a Phillip Harman born abt 1824 in Stroud Gloucester , according to his marriage cert his fathers name was also Phillip occupation cloth maker .
I can't find either in the 1841 census  and in 1847 he was married in St Pancras London , any help would be greatly appreciated .

Petles

Offline DORAN54

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Re: Phillip Harman Baptism
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 18 February 14 11:11 GMT (UK) »
if this is him he was in prison 1839 found guilty of larceny by servant got 6 months age 16 trial middlesex

Offline DORAN54

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Re: Phillip Harman Baptism
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 18 February 14 11:45 GMT (UK) »
sorry I haven't been able to find baptism or 1841 census for him :-\

Offline Petles

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Re: Phillip Harman Baptism
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 18 February 14 23:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Thanks for looking I think he was a non conformist from his death cert so maybe that is why there is no baptism record for him . Maybe if there are non conformist ones he would be in them  .

Petles


Offline DORAN54

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Re: Phillip Harman Baptism
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 18 February 14 23:49 GMT (UK) »
can't see him in the non conformist either

Offline Annette7

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Re: Phillip Harman Baptism
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 19 February 14 02:13 GMT (UK) »
Have been able to trace his family but surname is difficult to follow due to spelling variations.

In 1851 it states that Philip was 27, a Lithographic Printer, born Stroud, Gloucestershire and believe you must already have these details.   He is with wife Elizabeth and son William 6mos.  (They had an older son Philip Samuel born 1848 but I cannot locate him on the 1851 census).
Baptisms: Philip Samuel Harman b.19/6/1848, bp.12/7/1848 St. Giles w/out Cripplegate
               William John Harman bp.15/9/1850
 
However, he does not appear to have been born in Stroud, Glos., or if he was he certainly wasn't baptised there.   He married Elizabeth Rogers 30/8/1847 St. Giles w/out Cripplegate, London and was son of another Philip as you stated.   The witnesses Mary Ann Buckle and George Buckle were his sister and brother in law.  Elizabeth died (I believe 1856) and Philip remarried a Sarah Wickson, spinster, 6/6/1858 St. Pancras.  (He possibly died the following year 1859 Shoreditch).  This time his father is shown as Philip Harman, Tailor and the witnesses are the same ones who witnessed his first marriage i.e. sister/brother-in-law.

Have found his parents living in Heston, Middlesex on the 1851 Census - ref. HO107 - 1698 - 137 - 15.

Philip Harmon    50     Master Tailor (emp. 1 man)            b. Westbury, Wiltshire
Hester Harmon  54                                                         b. Trowbridge, Wiltshire

Philip Harman married Hester Webb 25/12/1817 St. James, Trowbridge, Wiltshire.
They had 3 children that I can find:

Mary Ann Harman bp.16/4/1820 St. James, Trowbridge, Wiltshire, dau. Philip/Hester (she married George Buckle 11/2/1839 St. Andrew, Holborn, London and witnessed both of her brother Philip's marriages).
John Harman bp.31/5/1829                      ditto                                       ditto
(John married Maria Hogan 4/1/1847 St. Mary, Lambeth followed by a remarriage in 1875)

Eventually found Philip's baptism although surname has been transcribed as Ormand!

Philip bp.26/12/1824 St. James, Trowbridge - son of Philip/Hester.

Since all 3 children of Philip/Hester married in London I think the family must have been in London/Middlesex by 1841 although I cannot find them on the 1841 census.

I then discovered an online tree for Philip and Hester but it only shows children as Mary Ann and John so the submitter obviously hadn't found your Philip's baptism (not surprising when it's listed as Ormand not Harman!)   I'm glad I only found this tree latterly as it confirmed everything else I had found including that Mary Ann had married George Buckle.

I have viewed the original marriage certificates of Mary Ann, Philip (2) and John and this confirms I have the correct 3 siblings.  Whether Philip was indeed born in Stroud and taken back to Trowbridge for his baptism (his mothers birthplace) I have no idea.     
 
In 1861 Philip and wife (shown as Esther) are in Isleworth, Middlesex - ref. RG9 - 772 - 20 - 33.   He is now a Woollen Draper.   His wife died as Esther Harman in 1866.  Three years later he remarries a far younger lady named Ann Roberts Dec.qtr.1869 Aylesbury, Bucks.  He's become 4 years younger by 1871, acquired a young wife and is now a Wesleyan Methodist Preacher!

1871 - Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire - ref. RG10 - 1414 - 123 - 13.

Philip Harman   67    Wesleyan Methodist Preacher         b. Westbury, Wiltshire
Ann Harman    37                                                        b. Waddesdon, Bucks.
Martha Roberts  72   mother-in-law   Pauper                         ditto
 
Looks like he died in 1875 so outlived his son of the same name.

Annette
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Offline Petles

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Re: Phillip Harman Baptism
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 19 February 14 20:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi Annette ,

Thanks so much for all your hard work  , I stupidly missed the importance of the marriage witnesses  and can only admire your dedication and helpfulness .

It has taught me to look beyond the stated fact esp with the place of birth once again I am extremely grateful for all your help.

Petles