John cleary, tailor, father of Patrick Cleary, tailor

[BAE]

US records show my wife's ancestor, Patrick Cleary (1832-1893), was born in Tipperary, Ireland, worked as a tailor in London in an 1851 census while living with his older brother.  Patrick married Margaret McAuliffe in London, and the marriage record shows the fathers to be John Cleary and William McAuliffe each of them tailors.  William and his wife Mary appear in the 1841 census in London with their 3 children with marks showing that the parents were born in Ireland, but not the children, but they were not born in the county (or Middlesex or London, I'm not sure).  Patrick and Margaret emigrated to US, their oldest daughter was born in NY in 1855, and the family moved to Marion, Ohio and had several additional children, while Patrick continued as a tailor.  All US census show that Patrick was born in Ireland and Margaret born in England. 
Does anyone have any brilliant insight on how to find records of to determine birthdates, dates of death, maiden names of wives of John Cleary from Tipperary and William and Mary McAuliffe from Ireland.

[Pennines]

Hi,

Irish records prior to 1830 can be very difficult to find I'm afraid.

I also have Clearys from Tipperary in my family tree -- and I do know that they hailed from Nenagh. However I have hit a brick wall with mine -- at about that date.

There are basic Irish records on Family Search. Some on Ancestry --- and also there is a 'paying' site Roots Ireland;
http://www.rootsireland.ie/

Unfortunately you have to purchase units to view records -- but you do get the sponsors names at baptisms and the witness names at marriages -- who are often relatives.

I have just done a search on that site for the baptism of Patrick Cleary born about 1832 in Tipperary. There are 4 apparantly baptised in 1830 - all with a father's name John --- and just 1 baptised in 1833 -- father's name John. I didn't view the actual record -- they cost 25 units!

Have a browse around that site if you haven't already -- just to see if you want to take the plunge.

[BAE]

Thanks for the tip.  I might be able to narrow it down to 4 or 5 possibilities but no method of reaching certainty unless there was some document that indicated that one of the Johns was a tailor--if more than one, another problem. 
Let me take a look at the site and see where it takes me.

[rathmore]

census of ireland 1911

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie

Cleary family Tailors living at 25 Clonmel Road Tipperary, brothers Thomas and Denis living with Thomas and family says brothers from Kings Co.

[BAE]

The Irish census was helpful--I found the two brothers living with their father Thomas, also a tailor, in the 1901 census.  Unfortunately, I can't connect them to my family.  Patrick born in 1832 was living in London with his older brother, also Thomas born in 1815.  The 1815 Thomas married by 1861 and remained in London with family--so he is not likely the brother with Patrick of Thomas born in 1841 found with family in 1901 census.  But they may be connected--the father Thomas (1841) was born in Tipperary, and his sons were born in King, but the family were back in Tipperary by 1901.

[BAE]

I looked at the baptism records in Tipperary and was hoping to find a set of parents that baptized both a Thomas b 1815 and a Patrick b 1832 with a father named John Cleary.  (Patrick and Thomas appear together in the 1851 census together as brothers.)  But no such luck.  I may have the record, but it's impossible to determine which Patrick born in Tippiary around 1832 it is as the records do not show the occupation of the father.

The Irish census of 1901 and 1911 is interesting in that one can search for names and their occupations, and after some time, I have identified all of the Cleary's in Ireland that were tailors--and there were many.  It seems one was either a laborer, a farmer or a tailor.  But since the available census is about 50+ years from my Patrick's emigration, that did not prove too helfpful.

However, with the suggestions made by those who responded to my original message, I know much more about Irish genealogy and some of the tools to unlook family history--thank you all.