Author Topic: Holmfirth pubs - Princess Royal (Rotcher Road) and Druid’s Hotel  (Read 11348 times)

Offline NNR

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Holmfirth pubs - Princess Royal (Rotcher Road) and Druid’s Hotel
« on: Thursday 06 February 14 11:52 GMT (UK) »
Dear all,

  I've written up the life story of my Great Great Grandfather's youngest brother. This was largely done to see if any descendents could be traced who might have a photograph of the man. This didn't succeed, but I did find information of two pubs he'd run - the Princess Royal on Rotcher Road (1880s-1890s) and the Druid's Hotel (1890s-1902). I was wondering if any photos of those pubs in that era exist?

  Anyway, here's the life story. Hoping someone stumbles across it who can help provide some more detail/links!

James Bray (1842 - 1902) John and Rachel Bray’s youngest son was only a year old when his father died and ended up living with three of his older siblings rather than with his mother. When he was eight he was already working as a woollen billy piecer. Eventually he moved in with his mother and stepfather and in 1861, by the age of 18 was working as a woollen warper.

Early the next year, James married Ann Rothery from Underbank, who was three years his junior. According to the 1841 census, the couple had a child in 1863 (or 1870 - see below) named Clara.

In 1871, James – now a woollen weaver – was living at Underbank with his 25 year old wife Ann and their eight year (or month) old daughter, Clara.

Sadly, in early 1874, Ann died aged 27.

In 1881, James is still at Underbank and is now a 37 year old weaver. He has, apparently, remarried (although no such marriage appears to be recorded in the Huddersfield area) and his wife is called Sarah. She is 44 years old. A daughter, Clara, is listed, but her age is given as ten. Perhaps the 1871 Clara had been eight months old, rather than eight years?

During the 1880s, James has undergone a career change and, by 1891, is working as a beer seller at the Princess Royal beerhouse at the bottom end of Rotcher Road  opposite Victoria Square. Clara, now apparently 21 is working as a mill hand and James, 47 and Sarah, 51 continue to live with her.

The next Spring, Clara married Thomas Barden.

By 1901, James and Sarah have moved to 30 Station Road and are now running the Druid’s Hotel, which is next to Druid’s Hall at number 28. Their grandson by Clara, Jim Barden, seven years old, is also living with them.

James died in Spring 1902 aged 59.

Druid’s Hall and Druid’s Hotel continue to be of interest, however. In 1804, James Harrop, a drysalter of Holmfirth left his estate to his four sisters; Mary Hincliff, Anne Hammerton, Sarah Dransfield and Jane Wordsworth. Jane was the wife of John, a surgeon and apothecary and her fold of land was an area of 1000 square yards and closes called Haigh Croft and Plumpton. Following her husband’s death, she sold the land to Jonathan Thorpe and Joseph Crawshaw. Joseph sold his half to Jonathan’s wife Mary and in May 1846, the Thorpes sold the land to Joseph Heeley, Job Dearnley, Jonathan Hincliffe and 18 members of the Ancient Order of the Druids for £190.

At the turn of the century the Druid's movement along with those of other Friendly Societies was falling into decline and so at a meeting held on the 17th February 1906 at which over seventy members were present, it was proposed and accepted that the Druid's Hall and buildings should be sold by public auction.

The auction of the property, took place on Thursday the 29th March 1906 and was advertised as a fully-licensed public house known as the Druid's Hotel, together with brew-house, two dwelling houses, stable, carriage house, outbuildings, yards and vacant ground and was sold in equal shares to John Edward Heap of Honley, solicitor and Daniel Stockwell, innkeeper of Upperbridge, Holmfirth, for the sum of £1150.00, the land at this time continued to be leased from the Lord of the Manor.

Daniel Stockwell, who became the innkeeper died on the 7th June 1908 and just prior to his death the hotel, stabling, and yard, were leased to William Whittaker & Co Ltd. Brewers of Bradford. The lease was signed on the 7th August 1907, however there appears to be no record of this being revoked and there is no mention of the lease when the Druid's Hotel was next sold. At the time of the sale one of the cottages or dwelling houses, was occupied by Tom Barden, the son-in-law of James Bray.
The Druid's Hotel as it was known in 1906 contained: on the ground floor - an entrance passage, commercial room, snug, tap room, filling bar, kitchen, arched ale cellar and wine and keeping cellars. On the first floor - a music room, storeroom and three bedrooms. On the second floor - a lofty well lighted hall with permanent platform, two anti-rooms, lavatory, independent stone staircase with entrance from the main road and communicating with the hotel and also an additional entrance from the back road. There were also two dwelling houses, a brew-house, a fourstalled stable with hay-loft, out buildings, yards and some vacant ground, however by this time the area covered by the hotel complex had been reduced in size to about 850 square yards or thereabouts. 

The Hall was bought by the Holme Valley Lodge Masons in 1917 and remains their property to this day.

So, the descendants of James are his daughter, Clara (b. 1863 or 1870) and her son, Jim Barden (b. Spring 1894). Jim seems almost certain to be the Jim Barden who dies in late 1959 in Spen Valley aged 65. There are two marriages that could both be his:

Sep 1915 to Sarah A. Hirst
Dec 1934 to Selina Dickinson

Neither marriage appears to yield any children.
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin

Offline josey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,730
    • View Profile
Re: Holmfirth pubs - Princess Royal (Rotcher Road) and Druid’s Hotel
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 06 February 14 12:30 GMT (UK) »
There is a baptism of a Clara Bray 30 Oct 1870 born 20 Jun 1870 daughter of James weaver & Ann of Underbank at Holy Trinity, Holmfirth. So it look like your theory of her being 8 months rather than 8 years in 1971 could be correct. What age does she give on her marriage to Thomas Barden in 1892?

ADDED: I see she states her age as 21. I don't think, as she had lived in the area all her life & presumably knew the vicar, she could get away with that if she was actually 29.

Do you have present day photographs of the pub premises?

Josey
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline NNR

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Holmfirth pubs - Princess Royal (Rotcher Road) and Druid’s Hotel
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 06 February 14 12:39 GMT (UK) »
Josey,

  Thanks for that info - very useful! I don't have a marriage cert. for her wedding to Thomas, so don't know her age then.

Do you have present day photographs of the pubs?

The Druid's Hall (that bought up the Druid's Hotel land) sits here:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=masonic,+holmfirth&hl=en&ll=53.57169,-1.784077&spn=0.002867,0.007242&sll=53.570161,-1.784313&sspn=0.005734,0.014484&t=m&hq=masonic,&hnear=Holmfirth,+West+Yorkshire,+United+Kingdom&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.571629,-1.784139&panoid=LTMwsvJs-jb45GFHg11kqA&cbp=12,121.14,,0,-13.07

As for the Princess Royal, it states it was 'at the end of Rotcher Road'. The only buildings still at the end of Rotcher Road are here:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=rotcher+road&ll=53.569625,-1.786909&spn=0.005683,0.01457&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Rotcher+Rd&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.569656,-1.786768&panoid=MfEN4Lc8E4YEhqtyQk2fpA&cbp=12,184.24,,0,0.4
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin

Offline josey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,730
    • View Profile
Re: Holmfirth pubs - Princess Royal (Rotcher Road) and Druid’s Hotel
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 06 February 14 12:52 GMT (UK) »
If you pm me your email address, I will send you images of the baptism & marriage parish entries.

Have you tried the West Yorkshire Archive Service http://www.catalogue.wyjs.org.uk/, the Huddersfield Local History Library http://www.kirklees.gov.uk/events/venuedetails.asp?vID=570 or the Huddersfield Family History Society http://www.hdfhs.org.uk/?

I have a book of archive photographs of the Holme Valley compiled by Peter & Iris Bullock in 1995. If you don't have this I will look through for you.

Josey
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON


Offline t mo

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,439
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Holmfirth pubs - Princess Royal (Rotcher Road) and Druid’s Hotel
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 06 February 14 13:01 GMT (UK) »
hi
all I can find in pics is this site which has 2 small magic lantern slides for druids hotel not a lot of detail I,m afraid .
www.slides.uni-trier.de/location/index.php?id=1504314
regards
trevor
morters-cambs-norfolk   clements london    copas newington
went colchester essex    goodey essex -suffolk

Offline NNR

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Holmfirth pubs - Princess Royal (Rotcher Road) and Druid’s Hotel
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 06 February 14 13:04 GMT (UK) »
Just found some other kids for Clara and Thomas:

After having Jim in January 1894 (baptised March at Holy Trinity), the couple had another son, Walter, in March 1895. Walter, however, was not baptised ‘til December 1903! John is born in October 1900 and baptised in December 1903. He too appears in Oakworth in 1901. Randall followed next, in November 1903 (and baptised just a month later!) Next followed Percy Jan/Mar 1906 and Maggie (Oct/Dec 1908).

Josey, have PM'ed you, but would love it if you could look through that book! Will check out the two links, too.

Trevor - thanks for the link, but can't make it work no matter how many bits I lop off the end of it! The http://www.slides.uni.trier.de/ isn't registered yet according to my browser...?
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin

Offline NNR

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Holmfirth pubs - Princess Royal (Rotcher Road) and Druid’s Hotel
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 06 February 14 13:04 GMT (UK) »
Trevor - Googling has led me there! Whew!
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin

Offline t mo

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,439
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Holmfirth pubs - Princess Royal (Rotcher Road) and Druid’s Hotel
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 06 February 14 13:06 GMT (UK) »
hi
sorry my fault misread web address  :-[
trevor
morters-cambs-norfolk   clements london    copas newington
went colchester essex    goodey essex -suffolk

Offline NNR

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Holmfirth pubs - Princess Royal (Rotcher Road) and Druid’s Hotel
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 06 February 14 13:08 GMT (UK) »
Well, I think they're pretty damn good finds! Thank you. The second slide:

http://www.slides.uni-trier.de/slide/index.php?id=5016091

Has my ancestor's name above the door!!
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin