Help needed to get to the bottom of a family scandal?

[KarenM]

Hi Judy,

Do you think they officially divorced?  Perhaps you could request the divorce papers from Arizona if that's where it was done?  That would list when and where they were married.

From my own experience, my gr-grandfather changed his name and dissappeared.  We still go by the name that he picked out.

Karen

[ec]

Judy

I think it would help if you told us what you have actually verified about 'your' Frederick - the stuff you have hard evidence for such as birth cert, parents, address on the cert etc.  Also if you have birth certs for Frederick (1920) and siblings - I know nothing about US birth certs, but there must be similar info on them to british.

I am confused about the place(s) of birth - the attestation papers say Gwenepp, then you seem to think Calstock - these two are quite a way apart with Calstock being very close to Devon.  Incidentally if you are relying on the IGI entry for Frederick William Cardell Pengelly then you should be aware this is a member submitted entry, rather than an extraction - not to be relied on, I think most would agree

I have done a quick search of IGI/BMD and there seem to be many Frederick Pengellys in the area.   Obviously you have some information regarding earlier family as you mention a Carkeek connection - that may help.

Ok - I've no found this, which appears to be your Fred

1901

Frederick Cardell Pengelly b 1861  Chasewater, Cornwall Head  Gwennap  
Elizabeth Jane Pengelly b1869  Gwennap, Cornwall Wife  Gwennap    
Frederick Carkeek Pengelly b 1893  Calstock, Cornwall,  Son  Gwennap  
Gwendoline May Pengelly b 1897  St Day, Cornwall, Dau  Gwennap
Elizabeth Myra Pengelly b 1900  St Day, Cornwall Dau  Gwennap

RG13/2238 f50 p15
RD   Redruth  
Sub-RD  Gwennap  
ED  5  

BUT

I have also found this
William J Pengelly b 1869  Calstock, Cornwall Head  Calstock  Cornwall  
Sarah J Pengelly b 1873  Calstock, Cornwall Wife  Calstock  Cornwall
Frederick W Pengelly b 1893  Calstock, Cornwall Son  Calstock  Cornwall  
William J Pengelly b1896  Calstock, Cornwall Son  Calstock  Cornwall  
Lilian B Pengelly b 1898  Calstock, Cornwall Dau Calstock  Cornwall  
Russel C Pengelly b 1900  Calstock, Cornwall Son  Calstock  Cornwall  
  
RG13/2115  f111 p42
RD Tavistock  
Sub-RD Calstock  
ED 6  


I think the second one was possibly the Titanic passenger.....
 



 
 

[Judy Pengilly]

EC, Kathy and Karen could I wait for my husband to come home and tell me how I can post the Birth Certs etc I think that just might make things a little clearer.  For Kath and Karen I just answered your posts above but it does not appear to show yet so I will leave it for a wee while.  The administrators might shout at me for this but if its easier to send docs's etc my e-mail judypengilly@aol.com  Many thanks to you all

Judy

[Chattykathy]

Judy,

What are you using for birth date?  Saw July 10, 1892 on WWI Draft Reg Card     1920 Census indicated 1894; 1930 is 1892.

Found California Death Record for
Frederick Pengilley  --  spelling variation actual as shown
b. Apr 23, 1901
d. May, 1983
Last known Address:  91604 {postal code} Studio City, Los Angeles Co., California
SSN:  555-42-1304 Issued in Calif. before 1951

Imposter or Fred trying to conceal identity, could be using different birthdate?   
Or peoples dates  sometimes change over time or with old age.

kathy

[Judy Pengilly]

My last post has not shown yet so I might end up repeating the same mge.

EC, that would make some sense but it would mean or would it! that William Ware who bought a ticket and travelled with Titanic Fred didn't cause he's with my Fred in Az? I think.  Soon as Steve gets in I will ask how to add the B Certs.  I have original my Fred 1892, and the kids Frederick, Ester, Gwendoline.

Karen, not sure about the divorce, not certain of the marriage other than the quote from the letter.  I never thought to start my search at the other end but it makes sense, going to try that one.  Personally I dont think he did divorce and also believe he likely married again, poissibly bigamously.  Blanche was killed in a German bombing raid on Penryn in Cornwall in 1941.  If you go to the CWGC site you can enter her name and see.  Its all so sad really.

Kathy, I dont think it could be him unless they have really got the dates muddled he was born 10 July 1892.  Being a tin miner, he definately smoked (got a picture of him with a cigar in his mouth) I would not have expected him to live that long but who knows.

Judy

[Willow 4873]

Hiya Judy

Don't know if there might be anything on this link that might help

http://www.freesurnamesearch.com/

Plus I'm sure there is a database somwhere listing the names of people who landed at Ellis Island. I just can't seem to find the link at the moment soz

Willow x

[ec]

Hi Judy

The William Ware in 1930 is actually transcribed on ancestry as William Hore.  Having looked at the image this looks correct, and having looked at 1901 Cornwall there were loads of possibilities for Hore and also Ware so I think this is a bit of a red herring.

Here is the baptism record for Frederick William (the one I believe was on the Titanic - fits with the 1901 census record

PENGELLY, Frederick William 2 Dec 1892   William & Sarah Jane Greenhill Bridge
father a miner **born 27 Sep 1892 bap St Annes Gunnislake

available on this site

http://www.minebydesign.co.uk/calstock/census/baptisms_p.htm

If you look on the Titanic site it lists Gunnislake as place of residence.

I really do think that the Titanic researcher is muddled between the two

[Judy Pengilly]

Hi again EC,

sorry but I have been busy.  Sorry also as  I am a complete beginner and do not really understand the term "actually transcribed on ancestry"  does it mean you are certain that its not William Ware? 

I have just had the name enhanced and read by an expert using a very powerful enlargement tool and he believes it, without any prompt from me, to be Ware, he's also using other examples on the page.  I really dont know.

I know its very interesting but I really am trying to find my Frederick after 1930. I tried Kathy's suggestion of starting with divorces but drew a complete blank.  I think all I have achieved today is to confuse myself even more.

Again many thanks I  will post the other stuff to you later if you dont mind and of course if my husband knows how.

Many thanks again

Judy

[KarenM]

Hi Judy,

What about checking out the historical society in Miami?  Here is the address and phone number for the Library.  Maybe they might have some phone books from the 30's and you can see if he is listed.  Or perhaps they may be able to direct you to who he may have worked for.  Seems like a big mining place and perhaps their is information on who the main employers were.

Miami Memorial Library
1052 Adonis Avenue, Miami, AZ 85539
(928) 473-2621
phone

Karen

PS..I know my gr-grandparents never divorced and he re-married again.