Lily Smith b. 1885

[annandalan1]

I know Lily Smith was born Feb 1885 from Memorial cards on her death 17th Aug 1918, Herne Bay, Kent:  she was born in England and had a sister, Ada (1911 Census of Ireland, Portobello Barracks, Dublin):  she married Thomas John Smith (Corporal East Kent Regiment "The Buffs") on 16 Nov 1905 at St. Thomas' RC Church, Canterbury, Kent.   They had 5 children - Josephine (1906), Thomas (1908), twins Harold and Kathleen (1910) and Billy, then Lily died Aug 1918 in childbirth.  I know her father was William Alfred Smith - on her marriage certificate "deceased - Bandsman The Buffs". My 'brickwall' is I have been unable to find Lily's birthplace or her mother's name - part of the problem is a 'Smith' marrying a 'Smith'!   Can anyone help please.

[rosie99]

Hi

Welcome to rootschat 

There is this possibility in 1891 in Colchester, Essex 

RG12/1411 folio103 page 42

 William Smith  42 occ Hawker bn Ireland
 Annie Smith  30 bn England
 Alice Smith  9 bn England
 Lily Smith  7 bn England
 Ada Smith  5 bn England
 Grace Smith  2 bn England
 William Smith  9 months  bn England
 


 

[rosie99]

There is a William Alfred Smith born Colchester 1890 in The Buffs who gives his mother as Mrs Annie Radford which would fit the above family if the father had died and mother remarried.
It shows his uncle as A J Scragg serving in The Buffs and also mentions a brother Harry. 

[annandalan1]

Thanks for that Rosie - I had been drawn to the 1891 Census return in Colchester, but couldn't take it any further. However with your addition of the name Radford I've found that Annie Smith did marry a William Radford in Colchester in 1898;  I then found them on the 1911 Census in London - it gives Annie's birthplace as Rowhedge, Colchester and living with them is Harold Smith, age 17, boarder - but crossed out is 'son former marriage'.   That's a strong pointer to being 'my' Lily's family as Lily had a son called Harold (my husband's father). Not proof but ticking a few more boxes!   I'm now trying to find William Alfred Smith and Lily's marriage and where Lily and Ada were born;   another positive is that William Alfred was born in Ireland (1891 Census) and my father-in-law always told us he was a 'quarter Irish'.   
Thanks for your help

[rosie99]

Annie Radford is at Shorncliffe age 36 in 1901 bn Rowledge - can't see the children yet though
RG13 piece 851 f 93 page 45

Rosie

[rosie99]

It shows his uncle as A J Scragg serving in The Buffs 

If A J Scragg was born in India - he is the son of Samuel Scragg and Alice Smith

Marriage Sept qtr 1867
SCRAGG  Samuel     
SMITH  Alice     
Elham  2a 1331
At his marriage Samuel was 24 and a Sergeant in 3rd Buffs - his father was William Scragg a labourer
Alice Smith was 18 and her father was James Smith a private soldier
According to census Alice was bn in Colchester.

Rosie

[rosie99]

 1891
 24 Brock Street, Macclesfield
 Samuel Scragg  48 bn Macclesfield, Cheshire
 Alice Scragg  39 bn Colchester, Essex
 Alfred J Scragg  16 bn Calcutta, India
 Frederick C Scragg  13 bn Colchester, Essex
 Lilly M Scragg  10 bn Macclesfield
 Leonard Scragg  6 bn Macclesfield
 Maude Scragg  3 bn Macclesfield
 Alice Scragg  5 months bn Macclesfield
 

[annandalan1]

Thanks again Rosie - Yes I found Annie Radford at Shorncliffe in 1901 and also William Radford (age 35).   I can't find the children either, although I have found a William Smith (b. Colchester age 10) at Ongar Road, Brentwood as a boarder, but haven't followed that up yet.   Also found Harold Smith's enlistment in the ASC in 1914 age 20, in London.   Alfred John Scragg enlisted in the Buffs in July 1892 at Canterbury, but so far I haven't found a definite connection except for the fact that his mother was Alice Smith, born Colchester.   I've searched the parish registers around Rowhedge, where Annie was born, but can't find anything definite, neither can I find any of the children's baptisms - I think this could be because they may have been Catholics - I know that Lily and Thomas John Smith married in a Catholic Church and Thomas wasn't catholic at the time, so it must have come from Lily's family.   
I've sent to the GRO for 3 certificates which I hope will give me Annie's maiden name.

[rosie99]

Let me know how you get on once you have the certificates

Rosie