WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish

[heywood]

I think you are spot on , Heywood

Thanks.

I can see John W and Hannah's marriage which shows her father as Edwin. This fits with Edwin (born Huddersfield) and Elizabeth Hayes in Moston (next to Harpurhey) in 1871.
From 1911 indexes, the family look to be in Oldham by then.
Lancashire BMD has a birth for Edwin Wilson mother's maiden name Hayes.

[welsh lady]

Hiya have you got documentation or certs, family bible that states Elizabeth Mundy is your Johns mother or did you trace back on census as weve all done that and sometimes gone wrong.
Recapping we know Elizabeth Mundy birth reg gives mothers maiden name as Kelly.1871 down as surname Kelly.1881 surname back to Mundy .However a likely marriage to John Wilson was found (Not Charles) they had a son John same name as yours and age however his occupation doesnt match the later census when your  John is married.
However the other family found Charles Frederick Wilson and Martha , Fathers name and occupation corresponds with marriage cert and they also have a son John whos age and occupation matches your John when hes married
If you send for birth cert of John puzzle should be solved then

Welsh lady

[Nivekdrawoh]

Thanks AMRAM
re your post eg...
I can see John W and Hannah's marriage which shows her father as Edwin. This fits with Edwin (born Huddersfield) and Elizabeth Hayes in Moston (next to Harpurhey) in 1871.
From 1911 indexes, the family look to be in Oldham by then.
Lancashire BMD has a birth for Edwin Wilson mother's maiden name Hayes.

Yes, Edwin Hayes b 1835 is father to Hannah Hayes b1876, who wed John William Wilson b1875...(whose father is still a mystery) and mother was Elizabeth Taylor (not THE famous elizabeth Taylor) b 10mar 1849 Kirkby Stephen, and she moved to M/C to work, she was a widow in 1881 in Prestwich M/C to where they had moved from Huddersfield. Hannah Hayesb1876 was orphaned her father Edwin Hayes b1835 huddersfield, died or was killed (not found out this mystery yet), then Elizabeth Taylor died...Edwin Hayes born huddersfield because his father (john Hayesb1799 in Worksop with wife Hannah Guest Hayes from tickhill) moved there.
John Hayes was a SCRIPTURE READER in manchester cathedral in 1861 (census hulme rg92888) does anyone know what that was, was it like the readers in a church now, or something else in 1861???

[Nivekdrawoh]

Reply to Welsh Lady
Thank you...
RE your post
have you got documentation or certs, family bible that states Elizabeth Mundy is your Johns mother or did you trace back on census as we've all done that and sometimes gone wrong.
Recapping we know Elizabeth Mundy birth reg gives mothers maiden name as Kelly.1871 down as surname Kelly.1881 surname back to Mundy .However a likely marriage to John Wilson was found (Not Charles) they had a son John same name as yours and age however his occupation doesnt match the later census when your  John is married.
However the other family found Charles Frederick Wilson and Martha , Fathers name and occupation corresponds with marriage cert and they also have a son John whos age and occupation matches your John when hes married
If you send for birth cert of John puzzle should be solved then

Don`t know what is going on there with Elizabeth nee Mundy b 1853 now a wilson,1881 because on 1881 censusRG113965 Salford, she is with her mother Margaret Mundy widow Ireland, brother Joseph Mundy and Clara mundy....My ggrandfather is there too, John William Wilson b1875 Salford m/c age 6 with his sister Margt Ellen 1873 (she must have died young because he did not mention her...)
In 1861 Census gorton Margaret Mundy b 1821 Ireland is with her son MATHEW BRIEN age 21 b Ireland 1840, so she either had him before marriage and her MAIDEN name was BRIEN or she was wed `afore in Ireland to a Brien. 
My grandmother Elizabeth Wilson B 1896 talked about a rouge called Mundy in the family, and used to tease her father John William Wilson b 1875 about the Irish leprechaun in his blood...

[heywood]

Here's a reply re Scripture reader from Stan on another thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=1228823;topic=230678.0;last_msg=1237089

A Scripture Reader, who had to be a communicant of the Church of England for at least two years, was nominated by the minister of the parish to the bishop, to be examined as to his fitness for the office, either by the bishop himself or someone appointed for that purpose. On being approved the scripture reader was then  appointed in writing by the bishop, and was under the control and direction of the glergyman who nominated him. It was the duty of the scripture reader to search out the most destitute and ignorant of the parishioners, and to read the Holy Scriptures from house to house. They were strictly prohibited from carrying, distributing, or reading from any book or publication except the Old and New Testament, the Book of Common Prayer, and any books sanctioned by the the incumbent. They were also strictly forbidden to preach anywhere.

The object of apppointing Scripture Readers was to give the clergy increased means of parochial efficiency.

Stan

[heywood]

My ggrandfather is there too, John William Wilson b1875 Salford m/c age 6 with his sister Margt Ellen 1873 (she must have died young because he did not mention her

1891 3332/ 14/ 20

Margaret E Wilson 18 yrs born Salford is living in Castleton as a niece to a Cragg family. There is also an Ellen Wilson with them who would be Margaret's grandmother.

Going back through censuses, Ellen Wilson is married to Benjamin Wilson.

1861  2915/ 81/ 15
has Benjimin and Ellen with children including John aged 10 yrs.
Benjimin is a packer.

1871  4020/ 66/ 35

John Wilson 20 yrs born Salford is a lodger in Salford. He is a Packer

This would fit with the marriage details for Elizabeth Ann Killy (Kelly) and John Wilson, a Packer- his father being Benjamin, also a packer.

Margaret continues to live with the Cragg family and probate was granted to those family members in 1964.

[heatherjulie]

Hi
For future reference

The children buried in Philips Park Cemetery, reply number 25 Charles Frederick Wilson and Samuel William Wilson are buried with Samuel Pemberton, Thomas Horsfield and Sarah Jane Honfield


Heather

[rolnora]

I didn't want to leave Charles F Wilson when I did yesterday but needs must and all that.
Heywood and Amram you guys did a great job moving it all forward and making it all fit together.
The only thing that I want to add and then I'll leave it alone is that I think that the Charles Frederick Wilson who died 1871 was the son of Charles F and Martha. Image of his baptism can be found on Family Search.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F9MD-VL6

[Nivekdrawoh]

Reply to Heywood stan
Thank you for this information,explains a lot...!!!!
Re our post
A Scripture Reader, who had to be a communicant of the Church of England for at least two years, was nominated by the minister of the parish to the bishop, to be examined as to his fitness for the office, either by the bishop himself or someone appointed for that purpose. On being approved the scripture reader was then  appointed in writing by the bishop, and was under the control and direction of the glergyman who nominated him. It was the duty of the scripture reader to search out the most destitute and ignorant of the parishioners, and to read the Holy Scriptures from house to house. They were strictly prohibited from carrying, distributing, or reading from any book or publication except the Old and New Testament, the Book of Common Prayer, and any books sanctioned by the the incumbent. They were also strictly forbidden to preach anywhere.

My reply
So take it, this office in abt 1861 is in some ways the same as a reader today in the Anglican church...With certain restrictions  lifted as today they can preach, and distribute the communion bread and wine,in a short service in homes and visit the sick in hospital. This John Hayes b1799, who eventually gravitated from Worksop via Huddersfield to Hulme  welcom st M/C
 (in 1851),  who was a master cabinet maker in M/C and purported to be a devout (whatever that means) christian. So this would fit....Thank you....