WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish

[Nivekdrawoh]

Charles Frederick Wilson B about c 1853 (don`t know where), he WED Elizabeth Mundy in SALFORD Manchester (UK). (Elizabeth`s mother was Margaret Mundy, B Ireland 1821) but Margaret had a son called Matthew Brien also born in Ireland. Margaret Mundy was a RYAN, and mother was Ann RYAN who was also IRISH.
Charles Frederick Wilson died between 1881 and 1891 presumably in Salford Manchester.
Can`t find his BIRTH or DEATH.
Are there any family members out there or anyone who has information

[suzard]

What year did Charles Frederick Wilson marry Elizabeth Mundy in Salford???

I cannot find the marriage reg?

Suz

[iluleah]

Deaths
3Q 1881 WILSON    Charles    28y    Ashton    8d   321

1Q 1882 WILSON    Charles    28    Todmorden    9a   174

4Q 1886 Wilson    Charles Francis    33    West Derby    8b   313

1Q 1888 WILSON    Charles    38    Salford    8d   116

Marriages 3Q  1878 

Hornsby    Elizabeth         Salford    8d   75    
Wilson    Charles E         Salford     8d   75

What occupation did Charles have? Cabinet maker?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQZ1-9T1   

[heywood]

Hello and welcome

I am just trying to work the family out. Do you have Elizabeth in 1871?

1861 2876/ 46/26
Margaret Mundy with children Matthew Brien 21 yrs; Elizabeth Mundy 8 yrs (born Liverpool) and Joseph Mundy 1 yr are living in Gorton

Where do the details re the marriage come from?

heywood

[heatherjulie]

1881
30 Factory Lane Salford
Margaret Mundy  Head 63 widow
 Joseph Mundy  Son 21
 Clara Mundy  Daughter 17
 Elizabeth Wilson  Daughter married 28 born Stockport Cheshire
 Marg Ellen Wilson Granddaughter 8 born Salford
 John William Wilson  Grandson 6 born Salford

Next door at 32 is Ann Ryan and family

3965/19/32

Heather

[heatherjulie]

CheshireBMD has Elizabeth Ann Mundy born Stockport 1853 mother's name Kelley

[heywood]

Interesting find Heather 

So ...

1871  4022/ 14/ 21

31 Factory Lane Salford

Margt Kelly 46 yrs Mangling b Ireland Co Kildare
Eliz Kelly 18 yrs Throstle Spinner b Stockport
Joseph Kelly 12 yrs b Gorton
Clara Kelly 8 yrs b Salford
Mary Welsh Lodger 60 yrs Parish relief b Ireland Q!ueens County

[heatherjulie]

John WILSON  and  Elizabeth A KELLY in 1871 at Manchester, St. John

[Nivekdrawoh]

Thank you everyone, your replies greatly appreciated.!!!!!!

This is the mystery (which seems to puzzle you all also) and has bedeviled me for years, the absent Charles Frederick Wilson B abt 1852 ish.

Where does my information come from ? It is thus.....

1861 census I have Margaret Mundy in Gorton, with Matthew Brien b 1840 son to head age 20 Ireland (can`t find her as records are scant)
Elizabeth Mundy daughter age 8 b Stockport 1853 (who wed Charles Frederick Wilson)
Joseph    Mundy son         age  1 B Gorton Lancs

THEN

I find on 1881 census Salford 30 Factory Lane.
Margaret Mundy Head Widow b Ireland.
Joseph Mundy son 21 dyer Salford (although it said b   Gorton in 1861)
Clara    Mundy Dau 17 spinner Salford
ELIZABETH (nee Mundy) Wilson MARRIED 28 cott spinner b1853 Stockport.   
Marg Ellen Grand daugh to head 8                                                             b1873 Salford           
John William Wilson Grand son to head 6                                                   b1875Salford

1891 Census Salford
Elizabeth (nee Mundy) age 38 WIDOW head Shopkeeper  b1853 (Salford but 1861 said Stockport)
Sarah Jane Wilson        "     8 dau                                  b1883 Salford
John William Wilson      "     16 Son Circular sawyer?        b 1875 Salford
Joseph Mndy Brother   "      32   Machine Maker               b1859  Salford

THE MYSTERY
I find no birth marriage or death for Charles Frederick Wilson b about C 1853?
Do not know place of BIRTH or DEATH.
Death must have been between 1883 and 1891. Why? because last child b1883 Sarah Jane (named a wilson, it could of course be presumptive as we know that although this child is named Wilson it may not be his child, but one assumes until proved wrong).
CFWilson is listed as a PLUMBER (maybe a journey man plumber so he was a mobile creature ) on my G G father`s marriage certificate in 1894 ( a John William Wilson b 1875). but CF Wilson was NOT listed as dead, in father slot.
As plumbers in those days dealt with LEAD pipes etc, madness may be an occurrence, so I wonder if Charles Frederick Wilson was in an asylum (eg he was thought of as dead by Elizabeth, wife and stated so on census ), and often the death was not recorded or the bodies were dumped in a mass grave after abuse.
JUST wondering if this was so, because I find no record of him...