Alfred Thomas Wilson (ATW)

[g.crighton]

My apologies to those I have confused with my George Moore posting. I seek:

1. The place and date of death of Alfred Thomas Wilson, bn, Manchester, England 24 July 1885.
2. The place and death of his wife Kathleen Josephine Doherty, bn, Manchester, England, 6 Jan 1888.

They married in Manchester 12 January 1907. They had a son ,also Alfred Thomas, bn, Manchester, 7 May 1907. The family emigrated, arriving Quebec 15 September 1911.

Nothing further is known of ATW senior and wife Kathleen.

A descendant of ATW junior has no information either, save that it is thought Kathleen later married (or lived with) a George Moore by whom she had three children.

Anyone researching Moore in Canada may perhaps be able to help!!

Thank you to all who have tried to help with this tricky item. I have commissioned some research in Manchester and await the results. This relates to the identity of a Mrs M Wilson of Stockport Road, Manchester named in a Canadian WWI Attestation Paper as next of kin of a possible ATW. senior.

[J.J.]

Hello geoff,
It is always harder to locate ancestors with a recent century, and the newer privacy laws make it harder. One also has to consider that some people did not want to be found. In those days divorce was still often overlooked and remarriage not out of the question.

Have you tried newspapers? I had thought Toronto Star's Pages of the past database had a more direct way to search obits and births but it seems rather tight ...maybe someone can give you advice on how to use it...?
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/thestar/advancedsearch.html

[g.crighton]

Alfred and Kathleen Wilson continue to elude my efforts to find them.

Research in Manchester, England has failed to find a Mrs M Wilson of Stockport Road, Manchester given as next of kin on the attestation paper of Alfred Wilson in 1914. The attestation gives a d.o.b. of 24 July 1884; "my" ATW was born 24 July 1885, son of Mary Alice Wilson. The attestation also states ATW to be unmarried. Despite the discrepancies, this document is quite a good fit.

It is also the case that this soldier appears to be the same man buried in Mount View Cemetery, Vancouver. A photo of his gravestone refers to him as being a Private in the 7th Battalion, CEF. The attestation paper also refers to the 7th Battalion.

The BC Archives lists this death on 17 October 1953, aged 67, in Vancouver and their microfilm is B13217. Is there some very kind soul who visits the BC Archives regularly who would be willing to do me a look-up please?

[J.J.]

That death cert was given to you by jacquie ....here:  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=673458.msg5185744#msg5185744

She found the CEF with Manchester birth later here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=673458.msg5186203#msg5186203

[J.J.]

This should take you to the proper papers ..I hate those new databases...they used to be great! Now they keep updating and messing them up.

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=318087

You may want to send for these papers if you think it is the right person...Sometimes they were tracked by the VAC up to their place of death...Maybe someone can also follow his ship entry after the war... he may be headed somewhere that would clue us in

to order his military papers
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/canadian-expeditionary-force.aspx#e

[g.crighton]

Thanks very much for all that. I had seen the attestation paper (page 2 of which gives the 7th Battalion reference). I had not realised that a Service Record is also available. Clearly, I should try to get hold of it.

Apologies to Jacquie - I had not appreciated she had viewed the actual death entry. (Canadian records are a whole new territory for me.)

If the ATW of the attestation paper is the right man, then it would seem his marriage to Kathleen had come to an end by the outbreak of war. Why else would he say he was single and give (perhaps) his mother's name as next of kin?

[J.J.]

He may well have been in British Columbia prior to his signup, as my Grandfather signed up in Valcartier as well, part of the 7th Battalion - 1st British Columbia regiment . The battalion returned to Canada on 18 April 1919. I sent for his papers but they end the following year as after he was wounded he joined The Gordon Highlanders as a commissioned officer and then married in the U.K....( He was Scottish) and they never traced his actions beyond that...although his year and place of death in Canada is still noted on his papers. A short military career does not cost much...a small will, and medical history, etc. will be about it...No actual war /military info other than a change of battallion etc, which happens often
 
The descendants from Ontario can look into these files for free if they can get down to the archives.!!!! Or you can wait a year or two and view them for free online  once they have all been digitized...I only just read that they are doing them all...

Oh, that will frost people who had to pay for huge files. Just put the service number in and choose yes in digitized area...But being that he is a "W" doubt they'd start with the last bit of the alphabet...
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/search.aspx

[J.J.]

Just checked and my grandfather signed up in Valcartier on the same day...
The 7th then embarked for Britain on 28 September 1914... It disembarked in France on 15 February 1915, where it fought as part of the 2nd Infantry Brigade, 1st Canadian Division in France and Flanders until the end of the war.42 The battalion was disbanded on 30 August 1920
My grandfather trained with the 104th in B.C, then became 7th, was moved to the 30th reserve at some stage

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/ol-lo/vol-tom-3/par1/arm-bli/BCR-eng.asp

7th Battalion-2nd Infantry Brigade British Columbia Regiment - were the first contingent overseas, Alfred was in "D" company, mine in "H"
https://archive.org/stream/listofofficersme00greauoft#page/92/mode/2up

[g.crighton]

How very interesting. Thank you very much for that. Bit of a coincidence then?

I await the return of my Wilson contact from holiday but will enquire where in Canada he was born. If his own father, ATW junior, remained in Ontario it perhaps suggests that Kathleen remained there too. Allegedly ATW junior left home at 14 - perhaps it was an unhappy home.

In England at this time, divorce was pretty much unheard of amongst the working classes. I imagine it was the same in Canada? The chances are that ATW senior did not divorce Kathleen but is there a simple way of testing that? If we assume the ATW in Vancouver is our man then given that he died in 1953, only then (without a divorce) would Kathleen have been free to remarry. By then she was in her sixties! The notion that she married George Moore and had three children by him looks a bit thin in the absence of a divorce. It seems more likely they merely lived together. Kathleen was of RC parents.

Lots of questions! It may be my Wilson contact is sitting on a clue without realising it. We'll see!