Dublin or County Kildare to Manchester ?? - ROWE/WROE - a mystery

[Latchford52]

I would be extremely delighted , if some nice person could help resolve a problem as I try to research my family in County Kildare .  Here briefly is what I know : - 

(1) My great-great grandfather Michael WROE/ROWE died in Manchester in 1864 , his age given as 68 which suggests either 1795 or 1796 as his year of birth .
(2) When he remarried [as a widower] the church records state that he was the son of John and Catherine ROWE of County Kildare .
(3) I have not been able to trace Michael's birth but a marriage for a John ROWE and Catherine KELLY has been found in Athy (Co. Kildare) on 2 February 1789 .  The witnesses were Bryan McLEAD and Catherine McLEAD . 
(4) Disappointingly no children for John and Catherine have been located .
(5) Further searching has been unsuccessful .

Consequently - in view of the absence of any census records and/or possible earlier church records - any assistance/suggestions would be very welcome .
Mike

[athacliath62]

you were very lucky finding a Catholic 1700s marriage, not many parishes have anything that old, so possible thats as much detail as there is to find. There seems to be gaps in the baptisms for Athy so if Micheal was born there he could be in one of these

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&churchid=459&CityCounty=Kildare&CityCounty=Kildare&parish=Athy

[athacliath62]

I think Id be a little cautious about that Athy marriage. with names as common as John and Catherine it may just be a chance match due to the records for Athy going back that far

[Latchford52]

My great-great grandfather - Michael ROWE/WROE - was born circa 1795 and died Manchester 1864 (aged 68) .  He was widowed and remarried (1852) at St Wilfred's RC Church in Hulme (Manchester) .  The church burial register states that he was "the son of John and Catherine ROWE of County Kildare" .

On successive UK censuses for Salford [1851-1891] , however , his son (my great-grandfather - Michael ROWE/WROE) gives his place of birth as "Dublin" circa 1825/1826/1827 .

The details on the 1841 census for the family of great-great grandfather Michael (living at Back Smith Street , Manchester) show that the youngest of the four children (Catherine ROWE/WROE) was born Ireland circa 1830 . This would suggest that the family left Ireland (County Kildare or Dublin ??) to settle in Manchester between 1830 and 1841 .

Unfortunately I have been unable to find anything (further) which might resolve this mystery and help trace the family on the Emerald Isle .

Any help/suggestions/pint of Guinness/cup of tea would be very welcome .
Mike


 

[taramcdsmall]

Hi There

Do you have the Christian plus maiden name of the mother of Michael whom was born abt 1825 in Dublin ?

Did the marriage record that you got give an occupation for Michael Senior's father ?

Also, just a note that another version of the surname that you will see a lot is ROE !

Tara

[Latchford52]

Tara ,
I was in the process of answering your email ...but seem to have hit the wrong button .... so have decided to redraft it .  If the (unfinished) email has already reached you , then my apologies for repeating my reply .
Thank you for your email in response to my enquiry regarding the ROWE/WROE family and whether they came from Dublin or County Kildare to settle in Manchester .  I shall try set out an answer as well as possible . 
My great-great grandparents were Michael and Margaret ROWE who settled in Manchester probably between 1830 and 1841 .  As I have not been able to locate when and where they married (almost certainly Ireland) I do not know Margaret's maiden surname .  Michael died in Manchester in 1864 aged 68 [consequently born 1795/1796 ??]  .  When he remarried in 1852 the Manchester RC church marriage register showed that he was the "son of John and Catherine ROWE of County Kildare" .  A marriage in Athy , Co. Kildare on 2 February 1789 was held between a John ROWE and Catherine KELLY . Are these "the" parents ??
Great-great grandparents Michael and Margaret had four children : Ann , Bridget , Catherine and (great-grandfather) Michael - all born Ireland  . Michael was born 1826/27 and on successive UK censuses from 1851 to 1891 always gave the answer "Dublin" to "Place of birth ?"
Based on the above information I have tried to research whatever records are either available or that I could unearth whether in County Kildare or in Dublin ....but - alas ! - to no avail ..... hence my posting on Rootschat .
I trust that you can follow this convoluted email .  I realise that there is not much to go on but after two or three years of frustratingly trying to research the family on my own I decided to put a post out there in the hope that perhaps someone might be able to resolve at least one of the many imponderable mysteries involved with my ancestors (and possible descendants) .
Kind regards ,
Mike

[taramcdsmall]

Hi There Mike

It's tricky as you have a few things going against you.

Our civil registration didn't begin 'til 1864 so for people born before that you need to know where exactly in Ireland that they came from to see if parish records still exist for that area.

Re Michael born 1825 Dublin - it's very possible that he WAS born in Dublin and the other referral to Kildare is to where his parents were born NOT where they lived after marrying.

The issue that you have is that Dublin and Kildare border each other so there really is a very wide search area; add to that the fact that you don't have Margaret's maiden name makes things even trickier.

There is a great free online site called www.irishgenealogy.ie that has lots of old Dublin City Centre records on it

I found this interesting one:

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ccd6c00320692

I think you should just put this possibility to one side though as it's way to early to say if it's the same family especially given the fact that we don't know if Michael was born in Dublin City or County.

Sorry not to have any better leads for you !

Tara

[taramcdsmall]

Hi Mike

Can you ask the moderator to link this Kildare thread to the Dublin thread that you have started with the same query.

This is to avoid duplication of research.

Thanks

Tara

Moderator comment - threads merged

[Latchford52]

Tara ,
Many thanks for your very informative email and attachments received today .  It is extremely kind of you to go to this trouble for me .... but then Rootschatters are extremely kind people , aren't they ?
Thank you also for your advice regarding the complications regarding "Place of birth" and "Place of residence" .  Perhaps I should set aside (at least for the time being) searches concerning Co. Kildare and see what comes up regarding the greater Dublin area .  Any suggestions as to what I should be looking for ?
In this regard one small piece of information that may or may not be of help : On the 1851 census Bridget and Catherine ROWE [two sisters of gt. grandfather Michael] were living at an address in Hulme (Manchester) .  They are described as "Nieces" to the Head of the Household , namely Ann McGUINNESS .  She is a widow age 60.... and was married to Thomas McGUINNESS .  I have often wondered - if they really ARE nieces - as to the (family) connection .  (a) Is/was Ann McGUINNESS  a sister of gt.gt. grandfather Michael [born 1795/96] as she would have been born circa 1791 ?  (b) Alternatively is/was she a sister of gt.gt.grandfather Michael's wife (Margaret - maiden surname unknown)?  Finally , (c) Is/was Thomas McGUINNESS a brother of the aforementioned Margaret ?

Any suggestions as to where I start looking for the proverbial (genealogical) needle in a (genealogical) haystack ?
Mike