William Rufus Diamond

[londonscorpion]

Hi Annette,

A very nice idea, but to prove it I need to know that Joseph (the father of WRD) came from Brenchley (and then of course that Joseph travelled to London and met Keturah !!). The reason for this is that in the 1851 census for Brenchley (HO107-1615-42-18) I find a Sarah Ann, described as "Son Wife" staying with a Joseph (a poulterer) and his wife Matilda. In 1851 Sarah Anne's husband, WRD, was in Winchester Barracks ( a small discrepancy here in that he is marked as NOT married!). The trouble is that I have no census with WRD living with his parents since he joined the army on 14 September 1838 at the age of 14.

All that information on Keturah is new for me so thanks very much for that.

[londonscorpion]

Hi Daisypetal,
Thanks for all that. I am still absorbing it all.

Hi avm228,
Thanks for that too.

[Annette7]

1. The 1851 and 1861 census clearly both state Joseph was born Brenchley.

2. As I understand it, when someone married and stated they were 'of that parish' i.e. where they married and were currently living, the banns would not be read in his birthplace.   They'd only be read in birthplace if he was still living there and clearly he wasn't.   I don't think you are going to find the 'proof' that you seek.

Annette

[avm228]

The trouble is that I have no census with WRD living with his parents since he joined the army on 14 September 1838 at the age of 14. 

Just a note on William's likely birthdate.  I notice that his Army discharge records treat him as having being "under age" from 14 September 1838 -13 September 1842, with the result that his reckonable service starts from 14 September 1842.

I am not sure whether that means 14 September was his birthday, or whether it had to do with the fact that is was the anniversary of his enlistment. (Perhaps he had joined on that date because it was his birthday?).

Anyway, the records also show him as aged 39 yrs 8mo at discharge on 24 May 1864, consistent with a September 1824 birth.

Have you found Army records for him other than those drawn up around the time of his discharge?

[londonscorpion]

Hi avm228,

I have only found the 4 documents associated with his discharge which I have transcribed and analysed in some detail. The point you make is a good one and I had already made some calculations along the following lines. If his age at discharge (39yr  8mo) is correct, and we assume it was exactly 8 months with no fewer or extra days, I calculate that this gives his birthdate as 28 September 1824. If we now take this date and compare that with the date of enlistment (14 September 1838), he was 13yr 11.42mo. But if he did join on his 14th birthday as you suggest, with 30 days in September, he should have been born on the 17th day of September. Tell me if this is just counting the same thing from two ends or is it valid - my date arithmetic never was that good and Excel does make it just that little bit easier to make mistakes faster.

Even if the above does work, and lets say the day and month are correct, we still have the problem of different birth years being suggested by other documents:

1871 census in Hereford at 43 - birth year would be 1828
Death certificate in January 1900 at 73 - birth year would be 1826

And of course, still the final problem of finding documentary evidence for all this.

[avm228]

My thinking was that the date of the transition between time served "under age" and time served not under age would (logically) be his birthday - so 14 September.

The discharge was prompted by debility rather than an age threshold being reached. If he had been born on 14 September 1824 that would be consistent with the 39 yrs 8 mo calculation at discharge (in that upon discharge on 24 May 1864 he would be 39 yrs 8 mo but not yet 39 yrs 9mo old).

Have you had any luck following up the 1828 Brenchley baptism?

[londonscorpion]

I agree entirely and probably the best stab at a day and a month. That could put us within 3 days of an actual birth "day" within a range of 4 years!. How accurate can you get !!

Did the army ever get more precise than counting age by months?

Not yet. I am expecting an extract by email tomorrow. I'll keep everyone posted.

[avm228]

Just as an aside - I had wondered whether his middle name "Rufus" had been acquired when he was a youngster by way of a nickname for redheadedness.

But apparently not, as his hair was "light brown" according to those Army records*

Also - he was 6ft tall. Not sure of the stats but I think that would have been pretty unusual then.

*actually, come to think of it I know a couple of people who were true redheads when young but tending towards the "light brown" by middle age...

[MargP]

Hi

Most genealogy records are tenuous, and  are only has good has the informants knowledge, also they these may be  copied from the original source, and are prone to errors, a lot of people in those days, did not know there exact date of birth, as this was not celebrated, as it is today, and they would hazard a guess

Margp