Author Topic: Stephenson Family - Newcastle upon Tyne - Mid-1800s -  (Read 22953 times)

Offline Gadget

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Re: Stephenson Family - Newcastle upon Tyne - Mid-1800s -
« Reply #45 on: Monday 06 January 14 11:06 GMT (UK) »


Think this thread really needs moved to U.S. board as there's certainly no indication where the family lived in Ireland and all the information is currently being gathered from U.S. records.

Agree - not sure how Mark got the Newcastle West link

(Possibly the subject line might be changed too )
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Offline Mark Stephenson

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Re: Stephenson Family - Newcastle upon Tyne - Mid-1800s -
« Reply #46 on: Tuesday 07 January 14 03:21 GMT (UK) »
Thanks all for so much effort and input.  I've got multiple issues to respond to so let's get to the big one first.

Does this discussion belong on this board?  I began this effort with the goal of taking what I knew about Stephensons in Fairmount (a section of Philadelphia just north of the Art Museum and west of the prison and tracing back first to Newcastle West and then to Newcastle upon Tyne.  If the administration of the site puts my initial inquiry on the US board, so be it.  What happens when my/our (because I don't think I'll make it without you) efforts are rewarded and the effort moves to Ireland.  Is that a new topic there?  But I'm happy with whatever the experts decide is correct.

Moving on to your various replies:

Reply # 35:  Yes, it is tempting.  The dates of birth of John and Mary do not match what I understand to be the case.  I have JPS' DOB as 1852.  I have located a Mary Spearing also born in 1982, who lived in the 18th Ward.  Family oral history has it that Mary Spearing came from West Philadelphia, i.e., the other side of the Schuylkill River, and was the daughter of a doctor.  Her mother would not speak to JPS and her parents did not come to the wedding. That location and her age are reasonable matches but I will know more when I see the Cathedral Cemetery records. 

Reply # 37:  I think this is correct.  Attached please see the 1940 US census entry for Richard, his mother Ellen and his brother Joseph.  I remember Aunt Nellie and went to her funeral.  Her daughter stayed in the house.  The nesting of the three households makes this a solid lead.  It also confirms Richard's DOB as 1872-1873.

Reply # 41:  I would be surprised if the 1870 Olive Street family is related.  The address is on the far eastern end of the ward and Eastern State Prison, a massive edifice, cuts that part of the ward off.  Also, the 2521 Olive Street address is so much closer to where the Stephensons clustered and Mary Stephenson is not that far off in age from what's expected.  It's important to remember that most people in Fairmount at that time rented their homes.  JPS' son John P Stephenson bought 2518 Meredith Street, which is right around the corner from the Aspen Street addresses (going west) and right around the corner from the Olive Street address (going east).  I suspect that JPS and Mary rented 2521 Olive until her death in 1908 and then JPS moved in with his son John.

Reply # 42:  Another solid fact is that JPS died in 1917.  My father, who was age 5, remembers going to see him shortly before he died and then to the funeral.  It was his first viewing (in the parlor) and he never forgot it.  As an aside, he was living with his son John then, in a rented house four doors down the street from 2518 Meredith. 

I hope these responses help.  I apologize for the length but there was a lot to cover.  I hope to be able to provide some hard facts later this week after I finish reviewing cemetery and city records.

Again, thanks to you all for your generous and gracious help.

Mark

Offline Gadget

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Re: Stephenson Family - Newcastle upon Tyne - Mid-1800s -
« Reply #47 on: Tuesday 07 January 14 08:56 GMT (UK) »
Hello again Mark

Just one comment at the moment. You say in two posts:

Quote
John Patrick Stephenson lived with his son John at 2518 Meredith Street, which ran directly into 26th Street on Baldwin's eastern border.

Quote
JPS' son John P Stephenson bought 2518 Meredith Street,

The 1920 census that I linked to has a John P Stephenson, wife Mary and a widowed father, John Stephenson, b. Ireland living at 2518 Meredith Street.

Do you have any evidence of John Stephenson's death in 1917 apart from your father's account?


Gadget
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Stephenson Family - Newcastle upon Tyne - Mid-1800s -
« Reply #48 on: Tuesday 07 January 14 09:38 GMT (UK) »
Further to the information on the 1920 census that I referenced in Reply #28 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MXSD-WRR:

*John P Stephenson married a Mary Fee in 1913. License no - 293520

*In the 1930 Census, they are living at 2518 Meredith with Leo, John B (nephews) and Jane Fee (m in law). John, 57, owns his home. Was 40 when he married. Born Pennsylvania. Parents both Irish origin. His occupation is given as a Repair man/Railroad car (1920 - 46, car builder/railroad)

Gadget
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Offline aghadowey

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Re: Stephenson Family - Newcastle upon Tyne - Mid-1800s -
« Reply #49 on: Tuesday 07 January 14 12:16 GMT (UK) »
Now, a few comments from me  :)

The online Philadelphia death records only go up to 1915 which is too late to determine John Stephenson's death. However, the 1920 census clearly shows that he was living with son John in 1920 so your father, must have been a bit older than 5 years old when his grandfather died (it's not uncommon to get dates or ages muddled).

I'm not sure where you are located, Mark, but rather than trying to purchase lots of certificates first step might be to contact Cathedral Cemetery asking for burial dates, anyone buried in same plots as your relatives (unknown relatives often are discovered this way) and any other details they can help you with. If there are any headstones they might give other information.

Next, if you are in the Philadelphia area, I would start checking for newspaper obituaries and death notices (once you have a date of death or burial).

This really does need to be on the U.S. board as other posters that check there might have resources for those of us (Gadget and myself for example) that are in the U.K. If, at a later date more Irish information is found then a new topic on appropriate board can be done (with a link to this topic so that everyone can see previous posts). Just click on 'report to moderator' and ask for moving as well as title change- something like Stephenson Family, Philadelphia might be good.

Meanwhile, I'll continue loking for more clues...
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Stephenson Family - Newcastle upon Tyne - Mid-1800s -
« Reply #50 on: Tuesday 07 January 14 12:30 GMT (UK) »
One further question, Mark, as I'm working on a new theory.

"My great grandfather John Patrick Stephenson emigrated to Philadelphia about 1870."
Is there any real proof that John's middle name was Patrick? or used the initial P? or even had a middle name?
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Mark Stephenson

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Re: Stephenson Family - Newcastle upon Tyne - Mid-1800s -
« Reply #51 on: Tuesday 07 January 14 14:07 GMT (UK) »
Good Morning Aghadowey:

I think the answer to your questions is yes.  About 10 years ago, I went to the Cathedral Cemetery and got the records for the persons buried in the family plot (which is in the annex).  I went over the names with my Aunt Anne, who put them in order.  In a house cleaning, my notes were lost (don't ask).  I recall JPS entered as John Patrick.  His wife was Mary Spearing.  I'm going back to recapture that data.  I do not know that he used a middle name or initial in life.

His son, also John Patrick, married Mary "Mame" Fee.  Thank you for the date.  My father spoke of her often.  She died relatively young and her sister Agnes came to help John in the transition.  They married and I knew Agnes, who died ~1975.  When I handled Agnes' estate, I met Jane Fee, Leo Fee and Mon. John Fee.  Mary appears in the 1930 census as John P Jr.'s wife.  Jane, Leo and John are her nephews.  If it helps, I believe most of JPS's sons worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad.  I know that my grandfather Edward and Ellen's husband (who I believe was William) did.  He was killed in a yard accident.  I apologize for the added color but it helps me keep things straight.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHZ1-1P7

In 1940, Agnes appears.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-27807-7960-21?cc=2000219&wc=M9Q6-B1R:n65618583

As always, thanks.

Mark

Offline Gadget

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Re: Stephenson Family - Newcastle upon Tyne - Mid-1800s -
« Reply #52 on: Tuesday 07 January 14 14:11 GMT (UK) »
Hello Mark

If what you say is so, then JSP was alive in 1920 - see my replies #47 and #48

Gadget
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Offline Mark Stephenson

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Re: Stephenson Family - Newcastle upon Tyne - Mid-1800s -
« Reply #53 on: Tuesday 07 January 14 14:49 GMT (UK) »
Gadget:

Exactly. As you point out, he's there for census.  It's what prompted me to get over to the Cathedral Cemetery records and sort that out.  But I think you will be proved to be correct.

Mark