Is this the same person - George/Charles CANNON?

[Jen10]

Hi all,

I have a convict, GEORGE Cannon, transported to Tasmania on the Mangles in 1834.  His convict records state that he was born in 1809/1810 in Berkhampstead (there are different spellings).  His father is Thomas and he has a brother, William, and 2 sisters, Sarah and Maria.  It says he was convicted of housebreaking at Middlesex on 10th April 1834, with William Hill prosecuting, sentence transported for life.

I have been able to find the court records for the day, where there was a CHARLES Cannon convicted of housebreaking, with an Edward Hill prosecuting.  There was also a Charles Cannon born to Thomas and Elizabeth Cannon in Great Berkhampstead in 1810, who has siblings with the same names.

Is it reasonable to assume that these are the same people, or is this a big leap?  How accurate are the convict records likely to be with names?  Was it common for a convict to change his/her name?

Thanks in advance!

Jen

[Neil Todd]

Not unusual for a person to use another 1st name. The convict records you have seen, are they transcribed? If so, mistakes understanding writing in the old hand can sometimes occur.

It would be very unusual to find two people with same parents and siblings in court on same offence, I would think.

Does the convict record have any aliases for your fellow. IE: AKA Charles.?

Neil

[Jen10]

Thanks Neil.  I have seen both transcribed and original records, and they appear to be transcribed correctly.  There are no aliases noted in the convict records.

Also, I have not been able to find a record of a George Cannon being born in Berkhampstead/Great Berkhampstead in 1809/10.  I have looked at a microfilm of the original records.

I am leaning towards them being the same person, but I don't want to rush to unwarranted conclusions!

[judb]

Just transcribing from the Tas convict indents which Jen has obviously seen, but I thought it worth posting.

No 1874
George CANNON, 25, 5ft 4.5 inches, Ho(?) Lad & Tailor  3.5 years - can't cut out,
tried Middlesex G D on 10 April 1834, sentence - life
Native Place: Burkhampstead, single, protestant religion, can read and write,
Father: Thomas in London, Paddington, a gardener
Brother Wm, sisters Sarah, Maria, one in service with L Courtnay, I A P(?), last in business in London.
This offence: housebreak, pros Mr Hill of Paddington, denies being in prison or being transported before.

A departure record is given for George
George CANNON, Steerage, per City of Melbourne   29 Dec 1851, from Launceston to Melbourne, ship of arrival: Mangles   Conditional Pardon      

George made an application to marry Mary Ann DEAN in August 1845.  Mary Ann had arrived per Majestic in 1839.

George and Mary Ann had these children:
Elizabeth CANNON 1846, b Longford, Tas
Thomas CANNON 1850, b Launceston Tas
Mary Ann CANNON 1852, b Launceston, Tas
Sarah CANNON SARAH JANE   1853, b Lauunceston Tas, died 1854

This information from: http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=11

There is some further information about the son Thomas which I'm happy to put up if you would like it.

Account of trial:
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18340410-146&div=t18340410-146&terms=cannon#highlight

UK, Prison Hulk Registers and Letter Books,
Geo CANNON, 23, convicted Newgate, 10 April 1834, housebreaking, sentence life, disposed to VDL 20 April 1835.
Received on prison ship Hardy at Portsmouth, 8 May 1834

As you see there are a couple of slight discrepancies but the date of the trial remains the same and the name of the victim is the same, for the records for Charles CANNON/George CANNON. The names of his father, his siblings and his birthplace are the same.

I think you are safe to say that they are the same person.  A clue may lie in the statement from the Indent - "denies being in prison or being transported before."  There is a conviction for a Charles CANNON, 18, for larceny at The Old Bailey in 1829, and was sentenced to 7 years transportation but I can see no Australian convict record for a matching Charles CANNON.  Many sentences were reduced, so he may have been released rather than transported or transported elsewhere..  If they are the same man it would be in his interest to deny a previous conviction.

Judith

[Jen10]

Thank you Judith. 

I had not seen the other conviction.  It could well be him - it seems to be in the same area.  I also had not seen the prison hulk register information.  I appreciate your efforts.

I would be very interested in some more information about the son, Thomas.  I have some already, and he is my ancestor, but any more would be appreciated.

Thanks again,

Jen

[giblet]

The Standard (London, England), Friday, March 28, 1834

William Goodlad and George Cannon etc etc etc

the later just returned from transportation etc etc etc

Its a fairly large article so if you would like a copy PM me your email and i'll get it to you 

[judb]

These children of George and Mary Ann are from the Tas portal site.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=8

Elizabeth CANNON
Birth: 1846 - LONGFORD, Tasmania
Death:   1852 - LAUNCESTON,Tasmania

Thomas CANNON:
Marriage/Relationship:   1876 - LAUNCESTON, Tasmania ( SMITH, AGNES )
Child: Thomas CANNON, b 1887 d 1888
I wonder if there were other children, but this is the only one mentioned on this site.

I note that there are more siblings for Charles CANNON, baptised in the early 1800s at Great Berkhampstead.  I am assuming you have these - happy to post if you want them.

Interesting find, giblet

Judith

[giblet]

FindMyPast
Crime, Prison and punishments
Cannon   Charles    -    1829    Old Bailey, London   

[judb]

The Old Bailey site has the account of the trial of Charles CANNON on 19 February 1829.  By coincidence there are trials for 3 people with the surname CANNON, all on 15 February, 1829 -

Joseph CANNON, 44, hay carter, living in Harrow - for hay stealing, confined 6 months

Mary CANNON, 17, larceny, transportation 7 years

Elizabeth CANNON, 38, confined 14 days

I can't see a Mary CANNON on Aussie records, but I do see a Joseph who may be the right person as there are some later convictions.

Judith