Difficulty finding parents/early life of James McIntosh, b. 1867 d. 1944

[sandram]

Calmasis,  I have the same people in my tree and have hit the same brick wall.  James McIntosh from Elgin is my grandfather. just getting back into searching again after a break.  I have been told that there could be a link to George McIntosh in Lossiemouth.  But cannot find anything that I could confirm.  The next search that might reveal something is looking into the witnesses at James and Marys wedding.  I have to get back on Ancestry to find where I put them.  Will let you know if I come up with anything more.

Sandra

[Forfarian]

I'm assuming that James & Mary didn't follow the traditional naming pattern. Here's the list of their children I have:
George McIntosh (after James' dad?)
Mary McIntosh (after Mary)
James McIntosh (after James)
Hamish McIntosh

I find that very curious, because Hamish is the anglicised spelling of the vocative* case of the Gaelic version of James, Seumas. It seems that in the 19th century people were aware of this, because the earliest use of it as a separate name was in 1880. It was used 40 times between 1880 and 1899, 1500 times 1900 to 1949 and 2541 times between 1950 and 1999.

So if your James named one son James and another son Hamish, was he trying to name his sons after two different Jameses in his family? Or did he and his wife just fancy the sound of 'Hamish' without knowing what its origin is? Or (perish the thought) are James and Hamish one and the same person?

*Digression - The vocative case is the version of the name that would be used to attract the attention of that person, so in effect 'Hamish' means 'Hey, Jimmy!' (or 'Hey, James!' if you prefer the full name). It is arrived at by aspirating the beginning of the name, which has the effect of changing the 'sh' sound represented by 'S' to an 'h' sound.

Further digression - this is why the given name Mhàiri, anglicised as Vari, grates on my ear. It is the vocative of the Gaelic Màiri, so it means 'Hey, Mary!', and instead of demonstrating the parents' desire to give the child a Gaelic name, it demonstrates only their lack of understanding of what the actual Gaelic name is. I note that the first 'Mhairi' occurred as late as 1904, and that there were just 192 of them between 1904 and 1949, but a vast rise to 5221 between 1950 and 1999. It is difficult to do a similar analysis for 'Vari' because of confusion with Vera and/or Valerie in indexes.

[sandram]

Just looked at my research into James McIntosh and what I have been looking at is the Scotland census from 1871 to 1891 where there is a James listed as a grandson born about 1871 one lists him born in Archistown Morayshire, the others in Knockando Morayshire.  Grandparents were John and Anne and in 1881 lived at the Old Semeil.  By 1891 James occupation was sawmiller.  They were in Huntly Aberdeenshire.

There is also a James McIntosh in the 1891 Dundee Stobsmuir Censis with him listed as a visitor, birth date 1867, born Elgin Morayshire as a joiner.

Looking at the witnesses at his wedding, I found a William Fyfe at Lossiemouth, spouses name as Jane.  One of the witnesses was Jessie Kay Angus.  Could Jane be Jessie?  I have also found a Jane Ann Jessie Angus as a Proprioter and James McIntosh as a Tennant in the Valuation Rolls of Blairgowrie in 1875.

If he was bording and/or living with relatives, maybe his parents died very young.
That might give us a few more lines of enquiry.

Sandra

[sandram]

A bit more that I have found about the witnesses at James McIntosh and Mary McDonalds wedding.

In 1861 census Elgin Moray - a George McIntosh (age 66 - b1795) was living as brother-in-law.  Head being John Kay (age 69) and wife Ann Kay (age 70).  George's occupation was retired boat maker.

John Kay had a son Alexander Kay b 1816 who was a timber merchant.

I have George's parents listed as George McIntosh (1745-1818) and Margaret Campbell married in 1774.  This George could have died in the US.  I cannot find where I have the reference to where I got this information from, but it started with the 1861 census and went from there.  We could have lost a generation or two here.  Maybe there are some who went to US and then returned.

As James was a joiner and timber runs in the family, it could be something.
More as I sift through my notes.
Sandra

[sandram]

Hi Calmasis,  Sandra here again.  Just wondering what your connection to James and Mary are.  My father was Edward, the youngest.  I am going to look overseas for the marriage of George McIntosh and Annie Gold and will let you know if I find anything.  No stuff anywhere to confirm anything so far.

Happy looking,

Sandra

[Calmasis]

Forfarian: I have James & Hamish as both being born in 1897, and they were on different censuses, so I'm assuming it's just that I misinterpreted it and listed them as two different people. That's pretty interesting, thank you!

Sandram: Wow, hi! It's somewhat reassuring to know that other people in the family have been struggling to find stuff about James . My grandmother is the daughter of George; James & Mary's oldest child. So I think that would make you my grandma's cousin? I still haven't asked her if she knows anything about James, which I really should.

Your posts about the possibility of James potentially living with the witnesses on his marriage certificate are really interesting.

Please do keep me updated. I'm working on a different side of my family tree currently, but I'll be sure to tell you if I find out anything about James.

[Forfarian]

Just looked at my research into James McIntosh and what I have been looking at is the Scotland census from 1871 to 1891 where there is a James listed as a grandson born about 1871 one lists him born in Archistown Morayshire, the others in Knockando Morayshire. 

Just noticed this.

The village of Archiestown is in the parish of Knockando.

[ryan37]

Just a query I’m intrigued If
anyone involved in this post involved with old semeil strathdon

Ryan