Green families farming in the Bolnhurst area. Were they related?

[bedfordshire boy]

I have two Cooper families in Henlow, Bedfordshire. Like Green, it's a common name. I too thought "Surely the two families must be related". If they are I've not found any connection and I'm now sure that they're not.

Thomas and William. Brothers? Cousins? Only researching the two names will show the relationship, if indeed there is one.

BLARS has an Admon for a Thomas Green of Dean, farmer Ref A 1749/8. Father, grandfather?

[perthman]

A couple of burials that might be part of the story are

5 Jun 1748 Thomas GREEN burial at All Hallows, Dean, Bedfordshire, Age at death: [not given]
 [http://www.findmypast.co.uk/records/nbi/details/246527?pf=1]

4 Apr 1788 Thomas GREEN burial at All Hallows, Dean, Bedfordshire, Age at death: [not given]
 [http://www.findmypast.co.uk/records/nbi/details/246872?pf=1]

The former fits with the Admon. The latter would permit this Thomas to be the witness at the 1781 wedding and/or the voter in the 1784 poll book.

Not having the ages doesn't help - no way of knowing if these Thomas Greens lived long enough even to be relevant, and without the age the trail peters out.

I'm pinning my hopes on the Admon for Thomas Green of Dean, farmer Ref A 1749/8.

[johnP-bedford]

I'm pinning my hopes on the Admon for Thomas Green of Dean, farmer Ref A 1749/8.

It doesn't help you that much as it doesn't name any children. It has that Elizabeth Green of Dean, widow; Robert Wagstaffe of Dean, brother; & Israel Howard, schoolmaster of Dean swore on oath that she, Elizabeth Green was widow & next of kin of Thomas Green, farmer of Dean.

So we are looking for a marriage of Thomas Green to Elizabeth Wagstaffe ? which was not at Dean according to Dean's PR; however a Thomas & Elizabeth Green baptised the following at Dean;
8 Mar 1740 Ann
18 Sept 1743 Thomas
24 Nov 1745 William
They also buried daughter Elizabeth on 13 Aug 1742 but could not see her baptism

The Thomas Green who was buried 4 Apr 1788 was a labourer - so not a wealthy farmer! he might well be son of John & Mary Green baptised 5 Oct 1735. John Green, shepherd was buried 11 Oct 1781

A Thomas & Mary Green (haven't found marriage) were baptising children at Dean between 1797 & 1803, then Mary was buried 24 Jan 1804. Thomas Green widower then married Elizabeth Tebbut on 19 Nov 1804 - they then had 2 more children who subsequently died, as did 2nd wife Elizabeth buried 17 Oct 1809. Thomas then married Sarah Goodman on 12 July 1812.

However datewise I think we've skipped a generation, don't think the Thomas b 1743 would be the one fathering children 1797-1808 when he would be aged 54-65. 

Also Dean also has a marriage of William Green to Sarah Gale on 11 Oct 1788 & Sarah wife of Willam was buried 11 Jan 1790.

So there is no conclusive proof that these William & Thomas Green are those on the Spaldwick marriage.     

[perthman]

They also buried daughter Elizabeth on 13 Aug 1742 but could not see her baptism

05 Jan 1738 Elizabeth Green christened at DEAN, Bedfordshire, father Thomas Green, mother Elizabeth
 [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JM2D-KRS]

It seems there were a couple of Wagstaff families living in Dean at the time, for example

10 Nov 1735 marriage between Sarah Wagstaff and John Harold at Dean, Bedfordshire
 [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2SV-XQJ]

and, mysteriously:

01 Jun 1736 marriage between Elizabeth Wagstaff and Richard Mott at Dean, Bedfordshire
 [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2SV-CV4]

I wondered if perhaps Richard Mott died almost immediately and Elizabeth remarried, but no, they had children -

20 Aug 1738 Elizabeth Mott christened at Dean, Bedfordshire, father Richard Mott, mother Elizab
 [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J384-H2C]

And while we are in the realm of coincidences

1739 marriage between Jane Green and John Wagstaff at Ravensden, Bedfordshire
 [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXMM-J4Q]

However datewise I think we've skipped a generation, don't think the Thomas b 1743 would be the one fathering children 1797-1808 when he would be aged 54-65. 

It seems that way. We need another will!

[perthman]

However datewise I think we've skipped a generation, don't think the Thomas b 1743 would be the one fathering children 1797-1808 when he would be aged 54-65. 

I have second thoughts about this.

If Thomas (christened 18 Sep 1743) was the father of William (married 27 Feb 1781), there would have been two weddings in 38 years - possible but tight. There would have to be a Thomas Green/ ? marriage around 1762.

However, if William (married 27 Feb 1781) is also the William (christened 24 Nov 1745) then
* he married age 35, and the witness could be Thomas his older brother aged 37
* first child Anna born 1782, William aged 37
* next child was John born 1790, William aged 45
* next child was Samuel born 1799, William aged 54
* last child William born 1801, William aged 56
* he died age 72
which is also within the bounds of possibility.

Thomas (christened 18 Sep 1743) could be the 1784 voter and a later marriage would make sense (if, indeed, he married). Could it be, for example:
 [results for Name: thomas green, Event: Birth, Place: bedfordshire, Event Range: 1742-1744, Country:England]

09 Oct 1771 marriage between Thos Green and Eliz Mehew at Dean, Bedfordshire, when he was 28
 [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2SV-DBW]

I wonder if Elizabeth Green remarried. In 1748 she has a farm and three young children to look after: Ann(, Thomas(5) and William(3). If she didn't remarry, would Thomas become head of the household on reaching age 21?

Can we find out when Thomas died and if he left a will?

[bedfordshire boy]

The 1803 Muster List for Dean covered men aged 17 to 55*. There was only one Green, Thomas a shoemaker with 5 children under 10, in class 4. He could have been in class 4 on two possible counts;
- married men over 30
- married men 17-30 with more than 2 children under 10

There are no Thomas Green burials in Dean after 1788, but he didn't leave a will, nor does BLARS hold any Thomas Green of Dean will after the 1749 admon . We ie you, can find burials at http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/parish-records/baptisms


* So Thomas born 1743 ie age 60 in 1803, would have been too old to have been included in the muster

[johnP-bedford]

09 Oct 1771 marriage between Thos Green and Eliz Mehew at Dean, Bedfordshire, when he was 28
 [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2SV-DBW]

That marriage has Thomas Green of Chelveston, just across the Northants border; a Thomas & Elizabeth Green were baptising children there 1772 - 1786 - take a look here http://www.rushdenheritage.co.uk/Villages/index-villages.html

Just a point here... if William Green did not baptise his children in anglican church because he was non-conformist what's the chance that he was not baptised there himself as his father was similarly NC. I have noticed that some Greens of Dean were listed as baptised 1832 to 1843 on the Higham Ferris Methodist Circuit (found on that rushden heritage website), are there any records prior to 1813? I think you need to pursue this area.

Also I've just found marriage in Beds Strays paper of Thomas Green if Dean to Mary MAPISH of Catworth, Hunts in 1796. ** He must be the Thomas Green on the 1803 Muster List. They had baptised 5 children up to 17 June 1803.

[perthman]

We ie you, can find burials at http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/parish-records/baptisms

I'm sorry. I have just been thinking out aloud. As I am now.

There were dozens of Green families in Beds. And Nether Dean is right on the corner of three counties, so Hunts and Northants also come into the equation - in all a couple of hundred Green families or more. How can I avoid being overwhemed by all these families? I think by following the money. 

I have been lucky so far, first with Ann Marritt at Crowhill Farm in the 1841 census, then with Mary Bowker in the will and some excellent advice on RootChat. The next potential piece of luck is that William of Nether Dean was fairly well-off. He is likely to have been part of a well-to-do Green family living in Nether Dean. There can't have been many of them. Which brings us to Thomas who had a vote.

I agree that because William was NC, his parents may also have been. But maybe I will get lucky again: "Visitations by the Bishop of Lincoln to Bedfordshire in the early 18th century give some idea as to the number of nonconformists in each parish from returns made by the vicar or rector. Information for Dean includes the following: 1720: “We have about seventy eight Familyes [sic], two Familys of Dissenters, both Independents”. “We have no meeting house”." [http://www.bedfordshire.gov.uk/CommunityAndLiving/ArchivesAndRecordOffice/CommunityArchives/LowerDean/RegistrationAndEarlyReferencesInLowerDea.aspx]
Dean doesn't sound like a hotbed of religious upheaval in 1720. Another piece of luck would be that it was William who converted to NC and not his parents, and that William was christened in 1745.

I feel my best line of enquiry, which I am working on, is to try to answer questions like: where did Elizabeth come from? What happened to Elizabeth after Thomas snr died? Did she leave a will? Did Thomas jnr take over the farm? (And out of interest, which farm was it?) Did he marry and have children? When did he leave Nether Dean, where did he die, did he leave a will there? When did William leave Nether Dean and go to Keysoe? Hopefully I will find some answers to support or disprove that 'my' William of Nether Dean was baptised in 1745.

[perthman]

There is an interesting marriage which may relate to 'my' Anna Bridgeford, born about 1756.

27 April 1752 marriage between Samuel Bridgford and Anna Addington at St Mary's, Huntingdon [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NKNC-QY3]
 (or at St. Mary's And St. Benedicts, Huntingdon) [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N67P-3QK]

The marriage is in the right time frame, and it is fairly local to Nether Dean. The ladies have the name Anna in common, noting that Ann Bowker signed Anna at her 1774 marriage; perhaps a coincidence, possibly handed down from mother to daughter. Of about 75 Ann Bridgeford's pre-1760 that I have looked at, just 3 have been the Anna variant.

Sticking with the Anna theme, this also looks interesting:
01 Mar 1723 Anna Adington christened at Great Staughton, Huntingdon, father Johannis Adington, mother Anna Adington  [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J3L9-SZ2]

The information is rather contradictory though. There are also

10 Nov 1721 Anna Addington christened in Great Staughton, Huntingdon, father Johanny Addington, mother Anna Addington
 [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N85P-KJC]

13 Dec 1718 Anna Adington christened in Great Staughton, Huntingdon, father Joannis Adington, mother Anna Adington
 [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N85P-FQW]

At least the Anna doesn't vary.

I cannot find a baptism record yet for either Anna Bridgeford or Samuel Bridgford. If they were NC perhaps I never will.

David