Can someone point me in the right direction please?

[Valda]

1891 census RG12 509 folio 17    47 Roan Street Greenwich  London   
Johnson, John I 47 British Subject, Sweden Head  Married Seaman
Johnson, Mary B 36 Limehouse, London, Wife  Married
Johnson, Thomas 16 Limehouse, London, Son  Labourer
Johnson, John H 15 Limehouse, London,  Son  Labourer
Johnson, Mary A 13 Limehouse, London,  Daughter 
Johnson, Alfred I 8 Limehouse, London, Son
Johnson, William A 6 Limehouse, London, Son 
Johnson, Ada E 4 Greenwich, London, Daughter 
Johnson, Benjn W 4mths Greenwich, London, Son

I think the enumerator got a little confused with the middle name initials but it seems to be the same family.

1881 census RG12 726 folio 68    11 Ordnance Place, Greenwich, London, England   
John Johnson 32  (B S), Sweden Head  Married seaman
Mary Johnson 25 Limehouse Wife Married
Edward Johnson 6 Poplar Son  (first name difficult to read)
John Johnson 5 Poplar Son 
Minnie Johnson 3 Poplar Daughter 
William Johnson 6mths Greenwich Son 
Mary Ann Hogin 30 Greenwich Boarder charwoman

Ages of the parents are roughly the same and son John. Minnie is a pet name for Mary Ann so she's the right age for Mary Ann in 1891. The child William would have to have died young - there is a space between births on the 1891 census. Leaving Edward if that was what is written to either be a mistake or a child that was called Thomas Edward or Edward Thomas as he is the right age for Thomas on the 1891 census.

Regards
Valda


 

[Valda]

1891 census RG12 509 folio 17    47 Roan Street Greenwich  London   
Johnson, John I 47 British Subject, Sweden Head  Married Seaman
Johnson, Mary B 36 Limehouse, London, Wife  Married
Johnson, Thomas 16 Limehouse, London, Son  Labourer
Johnson, John H 15 Limehouse, London,  Son  Labourer
Johnson, Mary A 13 Limehouse, London,  Daughter 
Johnson, Alfred I 8 Limehouse, London, Son
Johnson, William A 6 Limehouse, London, Son 
Johnson, Ada E 4 Greenwich, London, Daughter 
Johnson, Benjn W 4mths Greenwich, London, Son

I think the enumerator got a little confused with the middle name initials but it seems to be the same family.

1881 census RG12 726 folio 68    11 Ordnance Place, Greenwich, London, England   
John Johnson 32  (B S), Sweden Head  Married seaman
Mary Johnson 25 Limehouse Wife Married
Edward Johnson 6 Poplar Son  (first name difficult to read)
John Johnson 5 Poplar Son 
Minnie Johnson 3 Poplar Daughter 
William Johnson 6mths Greenwich Son 
Mary Ann Hogin 30 Greenwich Boarder charwoman

Ages of the parents are roughly the same and son John. Minnie is a pet name for Mary Ann so she's the right age for Mary Ann in 1891. The child William would have to have died young - there is a space between births on the 1891 census. Leaving Edward if that was what is written to either be a mistake or a child that was called Thomas Edward or Edward Thomas as he is the right age for Thomas on the 1891 census.

Regards
Valda


 

[Sylverton76]

I didn't know Minnie is a pet name for Mary Ann so thank you for letting me know.  Its quite probable that Edward is Edward Thomas Johnson as William Johnson turned out to be Theodore William Johnson.

Theodore has 12 children, the youngest being my grandmother and 6 of those actually go by their middle names.  2 of them managed to get married using their middle names instead of there Christian names!

[Mk2_Zephyr]

Are we cooking or what  !!!! 

The certificate you want to purchase of course is the marriage, but be prepared for Johanson son of Johan, son of .....  patronymics.

But well done team, excellent work all round.   

[Barbara F]

Not a bad result in 4 hours

Just wish our ancestors would keep to one name rather than switching them about.

Barbara

[Sylverton76]

Hey guys, thanks doesn't seem enough but I'm really happy.  Unfortunately I have another 2 noob questions...

Is John Johnson a British subject born in Sweden or is it likely that he was Swedish then decided to naturalise?  If it is the second, does anybody have any idea as to where I should go to find naturalisation records?  I now live in Cheshire but I have been to the FRC a few times when I was living just north of London.  I'm guessing the naturalisation records would show John Lawrence Johnson's original name?  Maybe he was Johan Lars Johansson

I've been told that my grandfathers family (surname Powell) are French Huguenots and settled in Wales in the 1700's.  They changed their surname to Powell to fit in with the locals.  Would Huguenot records be held with naturalisation records?

[Sylverton76]

Just to update you all the marriage certificate arrived this afternoon. The details are:

John Johnson (27) Mariner from 5 Alton Street. Father is Lawrence Johnson (deceased), a rigger.

Mary Ann Curle (20) from 41 Goodly Street. Father is John Edward Curle, a mariner.

It would appear they got married on 13 July 1875 at the Church of St Thomas in Stepney.

Whilst the father’s name is Lawrence, which would fit with the information I already have, his surname is Johnson.  Maybe this wasn’t such a good line to follow for a relatively new comer to genealogy!

[Valda]

I can’t see any Lars or Lawrence Johnsons on the 1861-1881 censuses that look hopeful, so probably from here the Johnson line has to be tracked in Sweden.
It is however possible to follow the Curle line from the 1861-1891 censuses

1861 census RG9 288 folio 12     1 John’s Limehouse  Middlesex   

John Curle 41  Leystone, Essex, Head  Married Ship’s Carpenter
Sarah Curle 33  Poplar, Middlesex, Wife  Married
Sarah A Curle 12  Poplar, Middlesex, Daughter 
Edward Curle 10  Poplar, Middlesex, Son 
Walter J Curle 8  Poplar, Middlesex, Son 
Mary A Curle 6  Limehouse, Middlesex, Daughter 
Henry W Curle 1  Poplar, Middlesex, Son 

1871 census RG10 575 folio 20    5 Broomfield Street Bromley St Leonard  London 

Sarah Curle 43  Poplar, Middlesex, Head Married Husband at Sea
Sarah Curle 20  Poplar, Middlesex, Daughter 
Edward Curle 19  Poplar, Middlesex, Son 
Walter Curle 16  Poplar, Middlesex, Son 
James Curle 12  Limehouse, Middlesex, Son 
Henry Curle 10  Poplar, Middlesex, Son 
John Curle 6  Limehouse, Middlesex, Son 
Fredrick Curle 4  Limehouse, Middlesex, Son 
Jane Curle 2  Bromley, Middlesex, Daughter

1881 census RG11 499 folio 133 13A Ellesmere Street, Bromley St Leonard, London

Sarah Curle 53  Poplar, Middlesex, Head  Widow
Henry Curle 20  Poplar, Middlesex, Son  Labourer out of work
James Curle 17  Limehouse, Middlesex,  Son  Labourer out of work
John Curle 15  Limehouse, Middlesex, Son  Labourer out of work
Jane Curle 13  Bromley, Middlesex, Daughter  Servant

1891 census RG12 324 folio 32    9 Johnsons Building Bromley St Leonard  London   

Curle, Sarah 66 Milwall, London, Head  Widow Nurse
Curle, James 28 Limehouse, London, Son  Labourer General
Curle, John 26 Limehouse, London, Son Labourer General 
Shawn, Gertrude 18 Poplar, London, Visitor, Machinist

Deaths Jun 1879
Curle  John Edward  53  Poplar  1c 474

To prove Sarah’s death you really need to find either John and Sarah’s marriage (doesn’t seem to be on FreeBMD) or purchase one of the children’s birth certificates to see if her full name was sarah Hannah.

Deaths Jun 1901
Curle  Sarah Hannah  78  Poplar  1c 311

Regards
Valda

[Sylverton76]

Thank you ever so much Velda.  I've been looking myself but I couldn't find anything.  If you were here now I'd give you a big hug!!

I have access to the birth marriage and death indexes at the local library so I'll take a look tomorrow morning.  I'll be sure to update you if I find the reference