(*Completed with thanks*)Edward Spence

[imchad]

Hi.
I wonder if I may pose a question to the Orkney group. I am based in Dumfries and currently looking for Edward Spence. This man was killed in the Indian mutiny of 1858 and (had he not been killed) would have been awarded the Victoria Cross. In 1907, the King decreed that Victoria Crosses could be awarded posthumously for the first time and Edward was to be the first recipient. His papers stated that he came from Dumfries and was born there 28th December 1837 although another source suggests 28th December 1830.  (no birth records found)
In 1907, the Army authorities wrote to the provost of Dumfries looking for descendants but none were found.

Now, looking at the 1841 census only three Edward Spences of possible age existed in Scotland. I have eliminated two who were still alive after 1858 but Edward Spence, son of Edward Spence and Barbara Hourston who married in Eday 2nd February 1828, has not been eliminated. Does anyone  have any knowledge of him?

Ian A McClumpha

[MonicaL]

Hi Ian

Was there another son born to Edward and wife Barbara called Edward? The sources I am seeing, from family search, have a birth of a son Edward but born c.1829 in Eday & Pharay, Orkney.

This fits with 1841:

Edward Spence 35, Ag Lab & Fisherman
Barbra Spence 40
Edward Spence 11 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQQK-6RP
Christian Spence 9 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQQK-7RP
John Spence 1 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQQK-XMB

Address: Crowbar, Eday and Pharay

You clearly have a birth of an Edward c. Dec 1837 or perhaps even Dec 1830 I think from what you have said. What is the source of a Dumfriesshire birth place? Was it in his attestment papers?

A puzzle for sure.

Monica

[MonicaL]

The London Gazette entry has him as aged 20 (fitting better with a 1837 birth year rather than earlier):

Private Edward Spence

Date of Act of Bravery: April 15th 1858

London Gazette: 15th January 1907

Campaign: India 1857-9

Citation: Private Edward Spence (Age 20) would have been recommended to Her Majesty for the decoration of the VC had he survived. He and Lance Corporal Thompson volunteered at the attack on the Fort at Ruhya to assist Captain Cafe commanding the 4th Punjab Rifles in bringing in the body of Lt Willoughby from the top of the glacis. Private Spence dauntlessly placed himself in an exposed position so as to cover the part bearing away the body. He died on the 17th of the same month from the effects of the wound received on the occasion.

Comments: King Edward VII awarded the decoration to his relatives and the VC is in the Black Watch Museum.
http://blackwatchforums.co.uk/showthread.php?5468-Black-Watch-Victoria-Cross-Holders


...although I cannnot actually see an age on the London Gazette entry from 1907 http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27986/pages/325/page.pdf

PS: I have now read a bit, from archives. What a fascinating story. How sad that young Edward's story's has not yet been determined

[MonicaL]

Ahh...is this why there might be an issue with birth year for Edward?

1851  Edward Spence,20, private army, b. Dumfries, Dumfries-shire at Chatham Barracks
HO107/1611/426/5

Other Edward, son of John and Barbara from Eday Orkney, is still at home in 1851. Sure you have seen this too.

Monica

[imchad]

Hi Monica

Dec 1837 was the date quoted by the Army but the article in the 1907 Dumfries newspaper suggest 1830 as a birthdate. That is why I have looked for both. I should think the December 1837 date is the correct one and that fits with Edward Spence from Orkney. I cannot see how his papers could be transcribed as being born in Dumfries if it was Orkney but Spence does appear in Dumfriesshire and their may have been a connection. I thought (hoped) that someone may have had knowledge of the family post 1858 so that I could either eliminate him or prove it was him.

Best wishes

Ian

[MonicaL]

It is a hard one.

The Edward from Okney was born on 13 Aug 1829 and shows at home with parents in both the 1841 and 1851 censuses. I cannot see him easily after 1851.

Spence is not a common name for the Dumfries-shire area, and nothing really fits there for an Edward born there anywhere between 1830-37 does it 

I suppose the main thing I am seeing now is that 1851 census entry for a young Private from Dumfries at the Chatham Barracks. It seems to be a good fit...however, making that link back to Scotland is hard as nothing really shows suitable in 1841.

The reference to Dumfries must come from his attestment papers you would think though. Why would the army make enquiries there if this was not showing as his home town on his papers. If nothing came from their enquiries, guess that means the Victoria Cross was never handed over to his family members? (Added: See that it is held and displayed at the Black Watch Museum in Perth).

Ian, have you managed to see his attestment papers from TNA?

You mention you are in Dumfries. Nothing there in the archives, not available online, that may help you further at this stage?

Monica

[imchad]

Hi Monica

No records anywhere in Dumfries, and none found in 1907 either. My thoughts were if the Orkney man could be eliminated, then I would have to assume that his attestation papers were correct. I haven't seen them personally but I know who has.  If the Orkney man was the VC winner, then someone on the Orkney list might have known about him.

thanks for looking.

Ian

[peedielass]

From Orkney Family History Society website:

Marriage of Edward Spence & Catherine MacKay, 1859, Westray & Papa
Edward Spence (age 29) & Catherine MacKay (age 23) married on 20/01/1859 at Westray & Papa.
Grooms Father: Edward Spence. Mother: Barbara Hourston.
Brides Father: John MacKay. Mother: Elisabeth Gunn.

[MonicaL]

Great to have the info peedielass  , to be able to eliminate him...but sad that the actual Edward Spence, and his family, is still not identified 

Monica