John DAVIES (Manchester / Worsley)

[ondis]

Hello,
        I am trying to track back John's family...here is what I know:

According to censuses between 1861 and 1881, he was born sometime between 1834 and 1836 (his listed ages were 26, 35, and 46, which should strictly mean he must have been born in early April 1835!).

He always put his place of birth as 'Manchester', despite living in Newtown, Worsley for much of that time, most of his children being born there as well as his first wife...and his second wife being born in nearby Outwood/Ringley...perhaps Manchester was a fair description or maybe he didn't know a specific place of birth.

He first married a Hannah Royle in 1855 (she was baptised in 1831, and commonly known as Ann). They had at least four children: William, Elizabeth Jane, Fanny, and Edmund.

He then married a Mary Lindley in 1867 (baptised 1836), and they also had at least four children: Thomas, Joseph, John, and Alice.

On both marriage records, John's father was listed as a William Davies - in 1855, he was recorded as a Cordwainer, in 1867 as a Labourer. There was no indication that he died by that time, like some marriage records do, but he wasn't marked down as a witness. There's a story in the family that John's parents died in a cholera epidemic. The historic epidemic of that time was in 1832, which contradicts John's supposed time of birth. I think that considering his first wife was consistently recorded as being several years older than John, it is possibly unlikely to be so far out.

I've tried to definitively find him on the 1841 and 1851 censuses, but have had no luck yet. I've also looked for clues in naming patterns...it seems that he named his first son after his father, his second son after his first wife's father (although there was a 4 to 5 year gap between the birth of his first two daughters), but waited until at least his fifth son to name one after himself. Also, as far as I can tell, none of his first wife's sisters were named Elizabeth, Jane, or Fanny/Frances, which perhaps goes against convention.

If someone could find traces of a family of cordwainer Davieses with such names, that would be ideal! Any help appreciated!

[heatherjulie]

Is this the first marriage you have found?

Marriage: 19 Feb 1855 St Mary the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire, England
John Davies - (X), of full age, Collier, Bachelor, Bolton Road, Pendlebury
Hannah Royle - (X), of full age, Spinster, Ginnel, Pendlebury
Groom's Father: William Davies, Cordwainer
Bride's Father: Edmund Royle, Labourer
Witness: William Royle, (X); Mary Braithwaite, (X)
Married by Banns by: J.M. Cookesley

[ondis]

yes, that's the one!

[rolnora]

This could be a possible in 1851 although age is a little bit out for John

24 Regent Road Manchester.

William DAVIS head 42 Shoemaker Outwood Lancashire
Mary wife 41 Gosport, Hampshire
John son 20 clogger and shoemaker Outwood Lancashire
Samuel son 13 Apprentice  to Gold Beater? Kersley Lancashire

HO107; Piece: 2224; Folio: 277; Page: 32.

[ondis]

yes that does seem plausible - it might also explain why he put Manchester as his place of birth.

thank you!

[Radcliff]

I am unsure as this man is a weaver, and Samuel would only be 16,

St Saviour Ringley,
13th August 1837,
Samuel Davies ,
son of William and Mary
abode Kersley,
fathers occupation weaver,

12th Feb 1854

St Peter Bolton,
Samuel Davies, minor Gold beater of Manchester,
Elizabeth Prescott, full age, spinster of Great Bolton,
Grooms father William Davies, weaver,
brides father ,Peter Prescott, engine Driver,
married by licence,
witnessed by ,John Blackley and John Horrocks,

Samuel is with his wife and family Liverpool Street Salford in 1861,
---------------------------------------------------------------
St Saviour Ringley,
20th Feb 1831,
John Davies,
son or William and Mary,
abode Pilkington,
fathers occupation, weaver,
----------------------------------------------------------------
St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich,
30th September 1827,
William Davies of Outwood,
Mary Crompton, of Outwood,
Married by Banns,
witnessed by George Kay and Abrm Kay

[mosiefish]

I believe John Davies is this one on the 1851 census.

Woodgate Row, Clifton
In the household of a Thomas Wolstencroft and family
John Davies, Serv?, 16, Drawer in Coal Mine, born Manchester. 

Woodgate Row was on Manchester Road which becomes Bolton Road in Pendlebury.

Mo

 

[Radcliff]

So was their first son Willan /William baptised May 13th 1855,

Son of John Davis and Hannah,
abode Worsley,
fathers occupation collier,

[ondis]

I am unsure as this man is a weaver, and Samuel would only be 16,

St Saviour Ringley,
13th August 1837,
Samuel Davies ,
son of William and Mary
abode Kersley,
fathers occupation weaver,

12th Feb 1854

St Peter Bolton,
Samuel Davies, minor Gold beater of Manchester,
Elizabeth Prescott, full age, spinster of Great Bolton,
Grooms father William Davies, weaver,
brides father ,Peter Prescott, engine Driver,
married by licence,
witnessed by ,John Blackley and John Horrocks,

Samuel is with his wife and family Liverpool Street Salford in 1861,
---------------------------------------------------------------
St Saviour Ringley,
20th Feb 1831,
John Davies,
son or William and Mary,
abode Pilkington,
fathers occupation, weaver,
----------------------------------------------------------------
St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich,
30th September 1827,
William Davies of Outwood,
Mary Crompton, of Outwood,
Married by Banns,
witnessed by George Kay and Abrm Kay

You've probably found the right Samuel, it's just that it seems sometimes, you get people changing between two unlikely professions

I believe John Davies is this one on the 1851 census.

Woodgate Row, Clifton
In the household of a Thomas Wolstencroft and family
John Davies, Serv?, 16, Drawer in Coal Mine, born Manchester. 

Woodgate Row was on Manchester Road which becomes Bolton Road in Pendlebury.

Mo

That fits perfectly! (John was always described as a collier as an adult too). From what I can tell, Thomas was a collier as well (?).

So was their first son Willan /William baptised May 13th 1855,

Son of John Davis and Hannah,
abode Worsley,
fathers occupation collier,

Yes, I believe that is correct.

Thanks to everybody for their help! (I'll now go and do so some blanket searches for the Clifton area in 1841 when I next have time to get to a library)