Kings Liverpool Regiment 13th Battalion WW1

[katelisabeth]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to find out a bit more about a soldier called Percy Hoople, killed in France during the First World War, who would've been my great uncle. I've been looking into my family history recently and found him. Here's what I know so far:

Born around 1895 in Liverpool
Enlisted on 4th August (possibly September? I can't access the record anymore to check ) 1914, aged 19. Served in the Kings Liverpool Regiment, 13th battalion.
Rank: Private
Number: 15797
Died 31st August 1918
Buried at Ecoust-St Mein Cemetery, France, in the Pas De Calais Area

We don't have any surviving documents of his at all, and there are sadly no living relatives of ours who would have anything of his. Anything we found out was from ancestry.com, on there we found his service record and death record and little else. Does anybody know where I can find any more information on him? I've searched online without much luck. I'm after things like where the battalion was posted on the day he died/what was happening, and other movements of the battalion throughout the war. A photograph of the battalion would be brilliant, I did find one on liverpoolremembrance.weebly.com that another user had posted, but I have no guarantee that it is the 13th battalion, or any idea which one is him if he is indeed in the picture somewhere. Even better would be an individual photo of him, which I understand is probably a long shot. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Kate

[Blue70]

Hi Kate,

Welcome to the forum. The military records for Percy are still on Ancestry if you no longer have a subscription you can view them at your local library if you live in the Liverpool area all libraries have Ancestry and Find My Past free on the computers. Be sure to save all of these records to a storage device such as a pen drive or e-mail them to yourself. There are some military experts who visit the Liverpool & SW Lancs forum if you don't have any luck on here try there next:-

http://www.forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/viewforum.php?f=30&sid=ecdb19718a9df09d159bd628b01b37d0


Blue
 

[CaroleW]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat

If you click on the PDF file on the cwgc website - it gives a tiny bit of info re: where he died and the battle there in 1918  www.cwgc.org

There are 28 images on his WW1 service record on Ancestry as it shows 2 entries - one with 10 and the other with 18.  I suspect some are duplicated but sound advice above re: downloading them onto a pen drive etc

His medal Roll Index card shows he was awarded the British & Victory medals and that he entered France on 7.11.1915

[millymcb]

Hi Kate - Welcome to Rootschat

Some basic info on King's Liverpool here
http://www.1914-1918.net/kings.htm

"13th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Seaforth in September 1914 as part of K3 and attached as Army Troops to 25th Division.
February 1915 : transferred to 76th Brigade in same Division.
27 September 1915 : landed at Le Havre.
15 October 1915 : transferred with Brigade to 3rd Division.
23 October 1915 : transferred to 8th Brigade in same Division.
4 April 1916 : transferred to 9th Brigade in same Division"

So - when researching what they were doing you not only look for the 13th Bn King's Liverpool Regiment but also which Brigade they were with and which Division.
At the time of his death in 1918 that would be 9th Brigade 3rd Division.

That is presuming he stayed with 13th Bn all the way through. You also need to check his papers very carefully as he may have moved around to other Battalions (for example after an injury or sickness or re-organisation etc). 


Milly

[millymcb]

There is some interesting info on the 3rd Division and 7,8 & 9 Brigade here which will tell you which battles they were involved in
http://www.1914-1918.net/3div.htm

Milly

[CaroleW]

Having a quick look shows his identity discs were sent to his father who wrote back saying they were not the right ones.  He also said that the manner & place of Percy's death seemed to be enveloped in mystery and asked where he could get an explanation

There is various correspondance which suggests there was some confusion as to where and when he died

[millymcb]

And excellent news...

National Archives have digitised the War Diaries for the 13th Bn which you can download for the very good value price of £3.86! You get a lot of pages for your money and it is well worth doing

Part 1 1915 Sept. - 1916 Mar
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C4554573

Part 2 1916 Apr. - 1919 Mar
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C4554580

You probably won't find his name listed specifically but you won't get a more detailed account of what they were up to generally. There is an example of a few pages of what you get here...http://thewarmemorial.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/war-diary-13th-battalion-kings.html


If you can work out from his papers which company he was with (within the 13th eg A, B, C D Company) you will get even more specific details. His papers may not tell you though.

Milly

[Stephen Nulty]

The War Diary for the 13th Bn reports,

“On 30th August 1918, the Battalion moved up to the line for an attack on ECOUST.
On 31st they attacked and were successful in obtaining their objectives as did the 1st Gordon Highlanders on their left. The Battalion on the right flank however did not get their objectioves and this necessitated a withdrawal temporarily and subsequently the Battalion re-took the objective, though suffering heavy casualties.

Estimated casualties, 9 officers and 200 other ranks.”

Those figures will have included the wounded and missing. CWGC actually reports 77 deaths for the Battalion on 31st, with another 16 dying in the next three days.

[katelisabeth]

Thanks for the welcomes everyone!  And for replying so quickly, didn't expect so many so soon!

Blue: I do live in Liverpool but I'm down in London at uni at the mo, sadly being a poor student I couldn't afford ancestry and had to cancel. Didn't know you could access it at the libraries, I'll be sure to check it out next time I'm home. Saving the records is a great idea too. I'll bare that other forum in mind too.

CaroleW: I've been on cwgc and found his grave but didn't see the pdf so I'll have a look. Where did you find that out about his discs, was that on Ancestry? The plot thickens!

Milly: Sorry I'm not really familiar with all the military organisation, brigades and divisions and all that, could you explain it to me a bit? He's marked as that battalion on his grave so I think he stayed, whether or not he moved around in between I don't know until I can get a look at his papers. That's great the diaries are up for download, I'll definitely be getting those. I saw they're at the museum in Liverpool so I'll be sure to have a look when I'm next up there.

Stephen Nulty: That's great to finally know what he was doing that day. From what I understand Ecoust was a village, is that right?

This is the photo I found, both on ww1photos.com and liverpoolremembrance.com
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uF1vddxFoSg/SygBMhw2kzI/AAAAAAAAAkE/SfW8wXM9nQM/s800/Signallers%20Of%20The%20Kings%20Liverpool%20Regiment.jpg

ww1photos.com says it's signallers of the regiment, while the user on the other site said it was just the battalion, can anyone clarify?