Alice Slater

[wrjones]

I don't believe the Barbara or John Edwin have anything to do with the Thomas born in Rhyl.I would say he is definitely with the Cooke family in 1901.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

Do you mean that you think there are two Thomases which is what I am wondering at the moment?
I don't think as yet, that there is enough proof to say that Alice is the mother, unless the family know this historically.
It looks as though Barbara may have been born before John Edwin's marriage so there is a strong possibility that she is John and Hannah's child.
It is difficult with her age being different in censuses.

Well there was only one Thomas born in Rhyl which is the focus of this thread!He is showing as born in the St Asaph Registration District as I showed in an earlier reply.

Now if there was another Thomas Slater admittedly with Barbara showing as born in Caerwys Flintshire,he would be shown as born in the Holywell Registration District.I can find no record of his birth either on Free BMD or on North Wales BMD.

There are records showing of the latter Thomas's supposed brother Ernest Slater but again despite the surname Slater,I can't see any link between this family and the family of Alice.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[heywood]

Thomas shows as born Caerwys in two censuses and as Thomas Slater and Thomas Platt.

There is a Thomas Slater born Rhyl in 1901 with the Cook/e family.
There is a Thomas Cooke in 1911 born Armitage with that family according to the indexes.

Is Thomas Slater born Rhyl, the same one who is born Caerwys and therefore on census in two places  or is he registered with a different name but just known as Slater because of Barbara and Ernest?

[kinged]

Hi All.
Thank you for your replies to this query.
I have Thomas' birth certificate which shows him being registered in St Asaph, as William John was the informant and was living in Rhyl where Thomas was born, he would have been registered in St Asaph which was the office for Rhyl at that time. The other members of the family were registered at Whitford which sugests that there was no office at Holywell at that time.
While I know that the family were living at the gate house (toll gate) in Caerwys in 1891 we don't know that they were there in 1897 when thomas was born; the gate house only had two rooms,presumably one living and one bedroom; with Jeanette being born in 1893 and Winnefred in 1897, (The same year as Thomas) it is possible that they had moved to larger premises; the gate house is situated between Caerwys and the A55, and is equel distance between St Asaph and Holywell..
I think that Ernest and Thomas were living with Barbara in 1901, if maybe only temporary, and that barbara put him on the census on that basis, as for the Thomas staying with David Cooke and his wife, he was only put down as a visitor, and as I sugested earlier could have been there so that Alice could visit him secretly without her family knowing.
Thomas was back with John Edwin and Hannah in 1911 which shows him as adopted.
If he was adopted, why would they not come out and say so? instead of saying that he was found on the doorstep, then there would have been no confusion.
Thank you all again for your help, and let us hope that we can find what happened to Alice.
Frank. 

[heywood]

Thanks for your explanations.
Did your family know Thomas as Slater or Platt?

I know that the name Slater makes the Rhyl born Thomas a very strong candidate but if that is the only evidence, I am wary of that for the reasons re birthplace and the change of name.
I just wonder if Alice Slater had her child Thomas who was then left with the Cooks  and given the name Cook.
Whilst another child Thomas was given the name Slater in 1901 census and then adopted and given Platt.
Whitford was a sub district of Holywell registration district which covered Caerwys.
There is a published tree for the Slater family of Lichfield which looks to have a photograph of an elderly Alice. It can be viewed on Mundia.

[kinged]

Hi Heywood
Thanks for your reply. Thomas was always known as Slater by the Family, and the fact that he was shown as being with the family members, and as being born in Rhyl, and that no other thomas slater of that age was born in rhyl at that time suggests to me that Thomas shown with the Cookes as a visiter, and the Thomas shown as with Barbara as a brother are one and the same.
I have a photograph of Thomas in army uniform with his brother Albert ( my wifes grandfather) and his sister Winnefred who was born in the same year as Thomas.
Alberts family all believed the story that thomas was found on the doorstep; if he had been adopted at birth, Why would they not have said so? There would have been no shame in that.
It's possible that he was adopted at a later date when he would have needed his birth certificate for some reason eg,passport, in order to avoid any embarasment. I guess we'll never know.
Frank

[heywood]

I do apologise for keep going on about it - it's just the element of doubt to me.
He may have been known as Slater because that was the name of the family who raised him.
There was no formal adoption procedure at that time but obviously informal ones.

Did his birthday match that of the birth certificate?

Did you get to see that tree with the photo of Alice?

[wrjones]

Have you found a birth for the Winnefred Slater?

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[kinged]

Hi Heywood @ WRJones
Thanks for your replies; The fact that he was Slater on his Birth certificate as was his mother, and that he was on the census with his sister and brother ( if not perhaps present on the night) as Slater, and that no other Thomas can be found as born in Rhyl of that age leads me to believe he was the right person, also, his children were all Christened slater.
His birth date on the certificate was 27-4-1897; I don't know which day he called his birthday, I suppose it's possible that John  and Hannah will not have had his birth certificate, if he was just dumped on the step, (or handed over to them) which ever the case maybe. I don't have the birth date of Winnifred, but the family all say she was the same age as Thomas.
Thanks again,
Frank

[wrjones]

I couldn't find a birth entry for Winnefred anywhere either,its very worrying!

Regards
William Russell Jones.