Thomas William Welsh

[flownthenest]

No, we don't have their marriage certificate as yet.

Regards

[flownthenest]

Oh, and we did have that census, but thanks for the transcription and advice. We have the 1851 census for James Allan and Isabella, with daughters Margaret and Ann. Do you already have this?
Regards

[flownthenest]

We do have the 1871 census from Ancestry Library Scotland Census:
Dreghorn Address: 2 Overton
William Rolley 31
Margaret Rolley 29
James Rolley 3
Isabella Rolley 8 months
Isabella Allan 50
James Allan 14
Robert Lamond 17
James Lamond 15
Regards

[jonn]

Hello Barbara,

Yes i had that 1851 census.

So you do not know who William Rolley's, parents are.

It also looks like James Allan, died 1870. in Dreghorn, Ayr, aged 60 years. of course there are a lot of James Allan's, in Ayrshire, this one however is about the correct age, i suppose you do not have Isabella Watson Allan's, death certificate of 1874. which would give parents names and would also state if James Allan, was deceased at that time indicating a pointer to the above death i mention.

Here is a indicator to whom i think are William Rolley's, parents and siblings at this time, 1841.

Kirkoswald, Ayrshire,

Adress Kirkoswald,

Rowley Alexander M. 35 years, Agricultural Lab. born Ireland,
Rowley Helen, F. age 30 years, born Ireland,
Rowley John, M. age 9 years, born Ayrshire,
Rowley James, M. age 6 years, born Ayrshire,
Rowley Robert, M. age 3 years, born Ayrshire,
Rowley William, M. age 1 years, born Ayrshire,
Rowley Alexander, M. age 13 years, born Ireland.

The 1841. census in Scotland, does not supply relationships to the people in a household.

You will also notice the spelling of the surname, however William Rolley, states on the 1881. census
that he was born in Kirkoswald, Ayrshire, and is aged 40 years on that census.

However William Rolley, does not seem to have a son name Alexander, however he has a daughter Helen, sons James, and Robert and of course William.

I still think this is your William Rolley, in 1841. with his parents and brothers.

His mothers name i think is Helen Best.

The only way to prove this is to get William Rolley's, marriage certificate 1866. Dreghorn, Ayr. which would confirm his parents names.

Regards,
Jonn.

[flownthenest]

Got that certificate and you are right, Alexander Rowley (sic) and Helen MS Best are William Rolley's parents.
Details of the marriage of William and Margaret:
7th December, 1866 Kirkland Row(s?) Parish of Dreghorn
After Bann's etc...
William Rolley, Ploughman, Bachelor 24, Drybridge, Dundonald. Parents: Alexander Rollo, Labourer. Helen Rollo, MS Best (Deceased)
Margaret Allan, Farm Servant, Spinster 24, Kirkland Row, Dreghorn. Parents: James Allan, Coal-Miner, Isabella Allan MS Watson
10th December at Dreghorn (Signed) James Milray, Minister. Signed John Borland, Witness. John McWhirter, Witness. James Manson, Registrar

There is a wordy, additional note at the bottom of the page dated 1st March 1867, Dreghorn, relating to errors in previous entries to this one, and mentioning duplicates, endorsed by James Manson, Registrar. Perhaps this was the final entry in the book.

We note that both Alexander and Helen appear as 'Rollo.'
When John's parents married in Coburg, Victoria, Australia (1941) Isabella's name also appears as 'Rollo.' We don't think she attended the wedding as she does not appear in the one, unposed group shot that we have.
Are there any valid connections to the Rollo family that you know of?
 
Also can we please ask if/where you fit into this family tree?
William Rolley and Margaret Allan are John's great grandparents.
Unfortunately, John has never met or had any contact with any of his other paternal relatives. He last saw his father (John Moore Welsh) at the age of five and was told of his death when he was 13 (in 1955).
We would love, of course, to have some photographs of the family if possible.

[Erol]

Hi Everyone,
I stumbled across this site while trying to trace my family history and I was very pleasantly surprised to find this thread on my maternal great grandfather Thomas W Welsh.  My tree starting with me goes:  Me ------> Laura May Welsh (my mother) ---------> Robert Allan Welsh (grandfather) -------> Thomas W Welsh (great grandfather - Isabella Allan Rolley, his wife) ------------> Richard Montgomery Welsh (great great grandfather).   
I never knew my grandfather as he left Australia for New Zealand possibly in 1938/9 where he married for a second time.  I found him listed in a New Zealand electoral roll as Robert Allan Rollo Welsh.   Some of the children of his second marriage live in Geelong.  Of my grandfather's siblings I only met May Montgomery Welsh who lived in Lara. 
I feel I have enough information on my grandfather's family tree but I am having difficulty finding anything on my grandmother's tree.  She was the first wife of Robert Allan Welsh and her name was May Elliott later Welsh.  I know this is a bit off topic but I would really appreciate any information that somebody may have.
Cheers,
Erol.

[Erol]

Sorry, forgot to mention:  in the post immediately above me, flownthenest asked if their was any connection between the Rollo and Rolley (Rollie) names.

My great aunt May Mongomery Welsh used to chat a bit with my sisters.  I asked them if May had ever mentioned the connection and they said that May said that the Rolleys were a branch of the Rollo clan and that seems to be the understanding in the family.
When I go to Scotland at the end of next year 2018, I will go to see a professional genealogist to sort this out.  I am also trying to make contact with my half uncles/aunts and cousins in both Australia and New Zealand to see if they know anything more on this question.  They are the descendants of Robert Allan Rollo Welsh.

[sparrett]

Hi Erol,
To know more about your grandfather's first wife -parents, place of birth etc.- you would need to purchase the certificate of the marriage. An uncertified image can be downloaded to your computer immediately upon payment.

This is the "how to" link
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/help+guide/

Victorian certificates of that era are rich in information.

http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html

However, if you already have details of her background, you should share them with the helpers here and we may find more.

I can see some electoral roll entries for the couple, but nothing definite after 1936.  I will type this if you do not have them.

May (nee ELLIOTT) may have remarried also.

Robert in trouble for stealing  in 1930. A gaol sentence.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4071394?searchTerm=%22Robert%20allan%20welsh%22&searchLimits=l-state=Victoria

Sue
 

[Erol]

Hi Sue,

Thanks so much for that.  I have paid for the marriage certificate and hopefully it comes next week.  Thanks for bit at the end about Robert Allan Welsh getting in trouble with the law!  Precious stuff.

Erol.