Thomas William Welsh

[cando]

They married in 1893 at Ayr, and we also obtained the 1911 census that shows them living at Ayr with their eight children.

Information by pm that three  children were noted on the 1911 census as born in Ayrshire and the rest recorded as the school district of St Quivon, which is in Ayreshire also.

I would suggest the name is St Quivox, Ayrshire

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/AYR/StQuivox/
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/maplink?GR=NS375240,CCC=AYR,PLACE=St%20Quivox
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/St._Quivox,_Ayr,_Scotland

Thomas pob Maybole, Ayrshire in 1911 however in 1901 it was Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maybole
http://www.south-ayrshire.gov.uk/about/maybole/

I find it quite odd that Thomas as head of the house, would give incorrect information on two census ie in 1901 and 1911.

Perhaps a look at the 1901 census may reveal more accurate information than has been transrcibed to Ancestry.com

Cando

[flownthenest]

1911 Census for St. Quivox, drainage district of Whitletts, Ayr
4 Blackhouse Crescent
Thomas Welsh  Head  42 Coal miner cuttingmachineman worker  pob Maybole
Isabella            Wife   40                                                                 Dundonald
William J(?)       Son   16 Coal miner cuttingmachineman                    Ayr
Ann Jane           D      13 Scholar                                                      do
Helen                D      12 do                                                             do
Isabella             D      11 do                                                             St. Quivox
Elizabeth           D        9 do                                                             do
Thomas             Son    7 do                                                             do
Robert               Son    5 do                                                             do
May                   D       2                                                                  do

[flownthenest]

Hi all,
Found Thomas Welsh's death in Ayr, 1813, the same year hubby's father was born. He was a dock worker, although no cause of death given. Isabella must have been pregnant at the time. Also his birth (only one that fits the date) to Isabella Welsh (?) Maybole, 1868, illegitimate, with no father named. Can't tie this in with his death cert. which names his father as Richard Montgomery Welsh, and mother Ann Jane, formerly Dunbar. Same named parents as on his marriage cert. Can only find one Isabella Welsh in 1871 working at 238 High St, Ayr, for Andrew Glass and his wife Marion, which is same address at Tam o'shanter inn. Andrew is named as innkeeper, although Tam o' not named. We've come to a dead end now as we can't find Richard and Ann anywhere, not marrage or death or other.

[flownthenest]

Ooops, that should have read, thomas's death in 1913!

[wivenhoe]

Going by the census information Thomas WELSH is born in Ireland, not Scotland

If you have credits for ScotlandsPeople you might be able to find a birth for William b. ~ 1895

I think it is likely that William is mistaken in believing he is born overseas. Father Thomas does not seem to have an occupation for colonial employment, such as military or civil service. And I wonder why William only knows this birthplace many years later.

[flownthenest]

Hi Wivenhoe and all,
We have made a few discoveries, such as William was born in 1894 and his middle name (which we've always thought the initial was J, not a B or an F) is actually James. The family are living in Overmills and Thomas is a carter. Re the birth of Thomas Welsh, we're wondering if he mistakenly thought he was born in Ireland, and later discovered he was illegitimately born to Isabella Welsh in Maybole (we have the cert. showing the birth) as we've found a Richard and Ann Welsh (pob Ireland) on the 1871 census, sans children. Is it possible they took over Isabella's illegitimate child because she was related to them. We can't find any other reference to a Richard and Ann Welsh with Thomas on any census material, they only appear on Thomas's marriage cert. as Richard Welsh and Ann Jane nee Dunbar, and on his death cert. as Richard Montgomery Welsh and Ann Jane nee Dunbar. Any thoughts?

[wivenhoe]

Can you write up all the information from the marriage certificate please.

Welsh might have started out as Walsh...is Thomas literate?

[flownthenest]

1st Dec. 1893 Drybridge Dundonald   
(signed) Thomas Welsh Carter (bachelor) residence Overmills Age 26
Parents Richard Welsh General Labourer (Deceased) Ann Jane Welsh MS Dunbar
(signed) Isabella Allan Rolley Dairymaid (spinster) Age 23
Parents William Rolley General Labourer Margaret Rolley MS Allan
Witnesses William J. Moore and Margaret Rollie
Drybridge, Dundonald
  Gibbs Registrar

[wivenhoe]

Thomas Welsh and Isabella Rolley  would seem to be including family names in the given names of their children. If you get the death certificate for Isabella you might find other children you have not so far located, with family names included, which might add to what you have already.

If Thomas's father is Richard you might expect to see a son named Richard?

From the marriage certificate 1893 you can see that Thomas knows his father is dead....so, his mother is alive?.

"...Parents Richard Welsh General Labourer (Deceased) Ann Jane Welsh MS Dunbar
.........Witnesses William J. Moore...."

On   ScotlandsPeople    index...death
1906 MOORE  Ann Jane  other surname DUNBAR     63yrs          Ayr

Maybe mother of Thomas?