Author Topic: John Knight and his wives - I'm Confused  (Read 12073 times)

Offline PetK

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Re: John Knight and his wives - I'm Confused
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 23 September 14 20:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Gail,

Sorry, don't know too much about John Duffy pre marrying Louisa. I haven't had the need to research that side of him yet. Catherine is listed on the 1901 Irish census as the aunt of John Duffy which I reckon would make his mother a sister of Catherine, therefore he was a first cousin of Louisa.

As you know Catherine's husband James (Chetwin) died in 1857 so times would have been hard. Louisa's husband William John Stokes died in 1890 aged just 38, so obviously needs must.

John Duffy's first wife Elizabeth (nee Donohoe) died 13-04-1899 aged 46. Don't know anything about children from that marriage. Before the year was out John had married Louisa and the 1901 census shows Louisa, children and Catherine living with John Duffy.

John Duffy was obviously a man of means having his own business - he was a master chimney cleaner employing several men. In fact, on the 1901 census my grandfather James (Stokes) was an apprentice chimney cleaner. Thankfully, on the 1911 census he is listed as a motor mechanic.

John Duffy died on 21-02-1904 aged 57 by which time Louisa would have been 48. The grave burial details for John and Elizabeth also lists a Patrick Duffy who died 19-04-1918. I don't know if he was a brother or son of John - he would have been 30 when John died so could be either.

Louisa died 14-12-1927 and is buried in the Stokes grave in Glasnevin Cemetery, Dublin with her son James (my grandfather), his wife Maria (nee Fitzpatrick), their son William died young on 08-08-1926 and my aunt/stepmother Ellen who died 21-12-2004 aged 90. Aunt/stepmother is correct - after my mother died in 1966 aged 47, my dad married her sister - my aunt - in 1968.

Finally, as you say Catherine returned to England and died in Toxteth in 1904. Don't know why she was there at that time but that was the area where the Stokes children were born and there may have still been family there.

You may already know but details of census in Ireland pre 1901 are mostly destroyed hence 1901 and 1911 being the first years online. The law in Ireland at present says 100 years must have passed before details can be put online. An attempt was made recently to reduce this to 70 years but was not approved. There was no census taken in 1921 due to the Civil War so you'll have to wait for the 1925 census to go online!
Hope that's not too much to lay on you at this time.

Regards,
PetK


Offline David Perchard

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Re: John Knight and his wives - I'm Confused
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 09 November 14 16:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi Gail,
I am related to William Jones and Ann Rowlands who married in 1851, and would like to exchange information.
Kind regards,
David

Offline pollie123

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Re: John Knight and his wives - I'm Confused
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 20 January 15 17:17 GMT (UK) »
I’m confused! I thought I had everything down correctly until I found another marriage earlier today which has now thrown a spanner into the works.

I have John Knight baptised 19 Mar 1780 at Nuneaton, Warwickshire, son of Thomas Knight & Elizabeth. He was buried on 17 Aug 1820 aged 40 and it appears that this is the only John Knight born in the right timeframe in the right place for the confusion below, but I am probably wrong.

What I had was:

On Sunday 15 June, 22 June and 29 June 1800 Banns were read at Nuneaton, Warwickshire for John Knight and Jane Atkins, both of this Parish.

They married on 17 August 1800 at Nuneaton ... John Knight, Silk Weaver of this Parish and Jane Atkins of the same place, Spinster were married by Banns. John Knight MADE HIS MARK as did Jane Atkins. They married in the presence of Samuel Shilton (his mark) and James Wheway ? (Church Warden ?)

There is a baptism for a Jane Atkins on 24 November 1780 at Mancetter which could be her but I cannot find a death or burial for her and cannot find any children baptised to John and Jane Knight.

On Sunday 12 September, 19 September and 26 September 1802 Banns were read at Nuneaton for John Knight and Mary GREEN, both of this Parish.

They married on 13 October 1802 at Nuneaton ... John Knight, WIDOWER, of this Parish and Mary GREEN of the same place, Spinster were married by Banns. John Knight MADE HIS MARK and Mary GREEN signed. They married in the presence of James Thompson and James Wheway.

I cannot find a suitable baptism or burial for Mary Knight nee GREEN.

Children baptised to John and Mary Knight at Nuneaton are:

Elizabeth Knight 18 September 1803
Lucy Knight 8 July 1805

On Sunday 22 March, 29 March and 5 April 1807 Banns were read at Nuneaton for John Knight and Mary LOE, both of this Parish.

I could not find a marriage in Nuneaton for the above Banns but did find the below:

On 18 October 1807 at Holy Trinity, Coventry, John Knight, WIDOWER of the Parish of Nuneaton and Mary LOWE of THIS Parish married by LICENCE. John Knight SIGNED Mary LOWE signed. They married in the presence of (hard to read) ? Payne and Ann Meigh

So all was well and good until today ... I found this which would tie in with the 1807 Banns:

On 10 June 1807 at Nuneaton John KNIGHT, BACHELOR of this Parish and Mary LOE of the same place, Spinster were married by Banns. John Knight MADE HIS MARK, Mary LOE made her mark. They married in the presence of Wm GREEN and James Wheway.

So, is there more than one John Knight? Was the marriage at Nuneaton not recognised because John said he was a bachelor when he was in fact a widower? Is the John Knight who married Mary LOE, the same John Knight who married Mary LOWE. Did John Knight marry Jane Atkins, then as a widower, Mary GREEN and then Mary LOWE? Is the John Knight who married Mary LOE a different John Knight. It is so confusing.

To make matters worse, now I don’t know who the children baptised to John and Mary Knight belong to apart from the two above who were born before 1807 so would belong to John Knight and Mary GREEN.

There are the following two baptisms at Nuneaton for children of John and Mary Knight and now I don’t know if it is John Knight and Mary GREEN (as I have not found a burial), John Knight and Mary LOE or John Knight and Mary LOWE.

Sarah Ann Knight 26 October 1810 (she was buried in 1811)
Sarah Ann Knight 16 August 1812

Now, there are four baptisms all done at Nuneaton at the same time and it is after John’s death:

Samuel, Joseph, Elizabeth and Daniel sons and daughter of John and Mary Knight of Attleborough, baptised 29 November 1822. It also states that Daniel was born 24 August 1808; Elizabeth was born 8 July 1816 and Joseph was born 30 October 1819. There is no date of birth for Samuel, however, there is a burial for him on 11 Jun 1837 aged 14 so born 1822/23. Mary (which one?) must have had lumped their baptisms in all together to hide the fact that Samuel was born well and truly after John’s death.

But this also raises the question as to why the two Sarah’s were baptised separately? Were they born to a different John and Mary?

I would like to think that there is only the one John and that Mary LOE and Mary LOWE are one and the same person and that both Jane Atkins and Mary GREEN had died ... but there is so much confusion.

My 3x great grandfather is Joseph Knight who was baptised along with brothers Samuel and Daniel and sister Elizabeth. He went on to move to Birkenhead, Cheshire.

How can I sort this mess out? Any suggestions?

Gail
my gg grandmother was born in Mancetter,

Gail my ggg grandmother was Mary Atkins, she married Samuel Shilton in 1798 in Nuneaton. I'm wondering if the Jane that you mentioned is the sister of Mary Atkins. Have you found any further information?

Offline pollie123

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Re: John Knight and his wives - I'm Confused
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 20 January 15 17:48 GMT (UK) »
Gail my ggg grandmother was Mary Atkins, she married Samuel Shilton in 1798 in Nuneaton. I'm wondering if the Jane that you mentioned is the sister of Mary Atkins. Have you found any further information?


Offline pollie123

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Re: John Knight and his wives - I'm Confused
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 20 January 15 18:43 GMT (UK) »
Gail, my gggg grandmother was Mary Atkins, she married Samuel Shilton in 1798 & I believe that Samuel was the witness to the marriage of John Knight & Jane Atkins. Have you found any further info on your John Knight?

Offline GailB

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Re: John Knight and his wives - I'm Confused
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 21 January 15 09:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Pollie

No I haven't really found any more on my ancestor except that he married Mary Loe and the other marriages don't relate to my tree, so Mary Atkins is not related to me in any way.
Armitage, Atherton, Barton, Beck, Bradshaw, Brumfitt, Chetwin, Conalty, Connolly, Connor(s), Davidson, Hilton, Hoey, Johnson, Jones, Knight, Lester, McDonald, Molyneux, Morris, Pownall, Rushton, Spark, Stanley, Tunstall, Welsby, West, Wharton, Williams, Wilson, Windridge, Windstandley

Offline pollie123

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Re: John Knight and his wives - I'm Confused
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 21 January 15 10:24 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Gail

I had Jane Atkins married to John Knight but I don't think they had any offspring, so your ancestor must be a different John Knight!