The Miller of Market Deeping

[DCB]

It is interesting that John gives his birthplace as Market Deeping, although I have not found any evidence of him or of a Nicholas.

I am not sure what happened to the mill after John died in 1767 and Mary in 1770. The next people I can find are, by coincidence, John and Mary Thorpe, who must have taken over the mill c1810. They were married in Whittlesey, Cambridgeshire, and also had links to Fotheringhay, Northamptonshire.
All of their children were baptised in Whittlesey between 1789 and 1806.

A possible link is that a Mary Hardwick was born to William and Mary Thorpe in Whittlesey in 1779. I am presuming that Hardwick was her middle name. One of my Thorpes married a man from Whittlesey but probably a coincidence.

Needs a bit more digging.

Regards,
David

[DCB]

I was looking at the register for the marriage of Elizabeth Hardwicke and William Holderness. This gives William's abode as Obthorpe, which is about a mile from Wilsthorpe, and only consited of a couple of houses at that time.
Thomas Rawnsley was a witness at Elizabeth Hardwicke's marriage and he would have been Elizabeth's uncle, who married Deborah Hardwicke, or his son.

see - http://www.queenslandfamilytrees.com/getperson.php?personID=I12836&tree=5

William Hardwick and Thomas Rawnsley are mentioned in this document, which also mentions Obthorpe - http://thurlbyvillage.wordpress.com/thurlby-grange/

I have not been able to find the marriage of William Hardwicke and Mary but I am fairly certain that I have the marriage of William's grandparents, John and Mary Thorp. I will post the details tomorrow.

Regards,
David

[DCB]

I could find no records for the baptisms of the first two children of John and Mary Thorp and no marriage. So, I looked for any John and Mary who only had a John and Elizabeth at about the right time.

The only ones I found were in Long Clawson, Leicestershire - John on 14 Feb 1719 and Elizabeth on 21 Aug 1722.

Then I found a marriage in the adjoining village of Hose - John Thorp & Mary Rouse 13 Apr 1719.
It was difficult to be certain until I found another marriage in Hose:-
 
John Molecey, p. Market Deeping, Co. Linc., & Eleanor Rowse, lic. 21 June 1756

Both can be found on - http://leicestershireparishrecords.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/phillimores-marriages-hose-1688-to-1837.html

John Molecey was the miller at West Deeping, about a mile from Thorpe's mill. I suspect that Mary Rouse and Eleanor Rowse were related and the introduction was made by John and Mary Thorp.

Eleanor Simpson Twigge Molecey, of Molecey Mill, married John Thorpe of Market Deeping Mill in Q4 1875.

I have also found a newspaper cutting from the Northamton Mercury in 1789 about the Sack Association, which includes the following members:-
John Thorpe of Whittlesey
William Hardwick of Deeping
John Molecey of Deeping

Given that Mary Thorp named four living Thorp children in her will and no record can be found of them in Market Deeping, they must have been living elsewhere. I suspect that the Thorpes of Whittlesey are descended from John and Mary but have not been able to prove it.

If you think the above might be correct, there are other records in Long Clawson:-

William Thorpe married Elizabeth Jarvis on 17 Nov 1690 in Long Clawson and the following are assumed to be their children baptised in Long Clawson:-

John - 18 Sep 1695 (married Mary Rouse?)
Elizabeth - b 14 Mar 1697 c 18 March
Sarah - 23 Aug 1700
Elizabeth - 10 Apr 1703
William - 17 Jan 1704
Ann - 13 Dec 1705

There is a mill at Long Clawson - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Clawson

Another interesting link to the village is that it is one of the largest prodcers of Stilton cheese.
One of my Thorpe relatves sold the cheese at Stilton between 1798 and 1814. However, I am not sure if Long Clawson was supplying it at that time.

Regards,

David

[Robwis]

I'm interested in this discussion.  My 4x great grandparents were Robert Hardwicke, and Deborah Hardwicke, brother and sister of the miller William Hardwicke.  (Deborah married Thomas Rawnsley and their daughter Elizabeth married Robert's son William.)  I've a lot more information on all of them.

It may be a coincidence but I think that Robert, Deborah and William's father William Hardwicke married Elizabeth Thorpe at Fletton near Peterborough on 19 Jan 1741.  She died at Market Deeping in 1791 aged 69 and according to the Gentleman's Magazine left 53 children and grandchildren.  Could she be related to the other Thorpes you have identified?

[DCB]

I think, but can't prove, that Elizabeth Thorpe was the daughter of John, the miller, and Mary.

I have been meaning to have a look at the register for the marriage in Fletton but haven't managed it so far.

I know the house of Thomas Rawnsley, which was for sale recently, although I am not sure if it actually sold.

Do you know the dates of when William Hardwicke was the miller at Market Deeping?

Regards,

David

[DCB]

I was in a rush with my previous post. Elizabeth was definitely the daughter of John, the miller, and Mary. It was marriage in Fletton that I was unsure of, although it seems likely.

Thomas Rawnsley's house is still for sale, as are some other properties named after him:-

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-37484887.html?premiumA=true

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-22289451.html

David

[Robwis]

Yes I agree the marriage in Fletton is not definite though I have never managed to find another marriage of William and Elizabeth Hardwicke that fits.

I don't have  many references to William Hardwicke as a miller other than what's been said already and

1.  William Hardwicke, miller, Market Deeping - game duty - in the Stamford Mercury  17 Sep 1790
2. William Hardwicke, Market Deeping  and others, signatories to a notice about the theft of sacks.  Stamford Mercury 15 Apr 1779.  So he was presumably in business by then though it doesn't say he was a miller
3.  Gentlemen's Magazine 1805 marriage of Elizabeth 2nd daughter of William Hardwicke, miller to Joseph Andrew of East India Co.  (Contrary to an earlier posting two of William's daughters survived to adulthood) Witness was Mary Hardwicke


What I'm really struggling is with is which William Hardwicke married Elizabeth Thorpe.  I'm not convinced it was the one born in Bourne in 1721.


Regards,

Rob

[DCB]

It is difficult to be certain, although Thomas Rawnsley had links to the Hardwicks of Market Deeping.

I am not sure why Elizabeth Thorpe would have married in Fletton when her parents were living in Market Deeping and her husband probably also in Deeping or Bourne.

Mary Thorp's will identifies Elizabeth Hardwick as her daughter and William Hardwick as the sole executor.

When John Thorp jnr. died in 1767, the inventory was signed by William Thorpe and witnessed by John Thorpe and William Hardwick Jnr.

If it is the correct marriage, I would imagine that it was by licence, because it would have been difficult for William to attend the reading of the banns.

Similar marriage:-
William HARDWICK, of Outwell in the County of Norfolk, and Elizabeth RAWNSLEY of this parish, spinster, were married by licence on 25 Sep 1810
both signed
witnesses: Mary Hardwick, Eliza Andrews, Thos Rawnsley, Wm Waters?

I found another reference to William:
National Archives:  MS 11936/370/570000  27 May 1790
Contents:
Insured: William Hardwick, Market Deeping, Lincolnshire, flour merchant.

I will try and have a look at the Fletton register, in case it has more information - i.e. William's parish.

David

[Robwis]

On your first point - Thomas Rawnsley was born in Bradford but moved to Bourne with his brother and became very successful.  He married Deborah Hardwicke at Peterborough Cathedral in 1784.  Deborah was the sister of William Hardwicke of Market Deeping.  Thomas and Deborah Rawnsley  have many famous descendants. Their daughter Elizabeth Rawnsley married Rev William Hardwicke in Bourne in 1810. This is the "similar marriage" you refer to.  The Rev William was  the son of Robert Hardwicke, an apothecary and surgeon in Wisbech, who was also the brother of Deborah Hardwicke.  Hence the Rev. William Hardwicke and Elizabeth Rawnsley were first cousins.  Their daughter Eliza Deborah Hardwicke (b Outwell 1819) was my great great grandmother. I've lots more details on these people if anyone wants it.

On your second - Fletton is not that far away - perhaps Elizabeth was in service there.  Their children were all baptised in Bourne.  But thanks for the info in the wills which clearly suggests William Hardwicke and Elizabeth Thorpe were the ones who married.

Thanks also for the witnesses at the 1810 marriage.  Eliza Andrews would be the daughter of William Hardwicke the miller, she married in 1805, and cousin of both the bride and groom.

Rob