Author Topic: Jane Flett - how did she get here?  (Read 5111 times)

Offline Jason46

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Re: flett
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 16 October 13 00:20 BST (UK) »
On another thread, I have just been told that the 2nd John' s death date on his headstone is not 1861 but should be 1862, which is interesting, but it still does not tell me when my Jane Flett (nee Smith) arrived as the Jane Flett who arrived on the Black Swan was English, not Scottish and was accompanied by a 1-month female infant. I have also been told that there was a Mrs Pilett aged 35 on the Black Swan which arrived in Port Philip Bay on 5th January 1861, but I can't find her. Jane had 7 brothers and i put their named down on another thread but do not have them on me at the moment.
Carpenter - Devon and Australia
Flett - Orkneys
Morrell - Antrim, France, Switzerland and Ballarat
Wilcher - Bermondsey and Birmingham
Roberts - Liverpool
Price - Monmouthshire
Smith - Orkneys
Barnsley - Cumberland
Discombe - Devon
Brewer - Devon
Torrington - Devon

Offline Dundee

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Re: flett
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 16 October 13 00:30 BST (UK) »
I can see that the headstone says that baby John died in 1861, but I would contact the cemetery for a double check of the burial date.  The headstone was erected some time after his death and it is not unusual for errors to be made.  Both the burial record and the death registration say that the death was in 1862.  http://billiongraves.com/pages/record/JohnFlett/2609294

For your purposes it is important to establish how long Jane had been in Australia - most likely at least 9 months before the birth of the child.  I am no expert, but I don't think that a baby that was overly premature would have lived for as long as 3 weeks in 1861.

I wouldn't worry too much about the English/Irish/Scottish thing on immigration records as we have proven them to be incorrect in the past.  Ages can also be incorrect. 

The "Mrs PILETT" is a transcription error on Ancestry.com's passenger lists and is the same person as "Mrs FLETT" on the PROV indexes.  They have transcribed independently from PROV, but I do find that PROV is more reliable with names.

I cannot see a female infant with her, is that on the microfiche?

Debra  :)

Offline Jason46

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Re: flett
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 16 October 13 00:43 BST (UK) »
I would have to recheck but I believe that the Mrs Flett on the Black Swan was English and had a 1-month old female infant with her. If the 2nd son John died at 3 weeks of age in Jan 1862, then the Black Swan becomes a possibility as it arrived in Jan 1861, but their still seems to be a lot of inconsistencies. Do you know what port the Black Swan left from? If it was a Scottish port, marking a Scot as an English person seems to be more than just trivial
Carpenter - Devon and Australia
Flett - Orkneys
Morrell - Antrim, France, Switzerland and Ballarat
Wilcher - Bermondsey and Birmingham
Roberts - Liverpool
Price - Monmouthshire
Smith - Orkneys
Barnsley - Cumberland
Discombe - Devon
Brewer - Devon
Torrington - Devon

Offline Dundee

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Re: flett
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 16 October 13 01:25 BST (UK) »
I have asked a moderator to merge the two threads on Jane FLETT.

The recording of nationality was just for statistics and a tick in the wrong box was of no great relevance, though the passengers themselves would probably disagree!

Here are the details of Jane's brothers from a previous thread.

Hi Monica
I just finished sorting out all the info I have on Jean Smith's seven brothers. I believe that the Mrs. Flett on the Black Swan in 1861 is her, and if she was accompanied by a brother he would be a Smith and there are 7 brothers. Magnus (45 in 1861), William (43), James (41), Thomas (37), John (32) Simon (26) and Robert (24). John was a gold miner who returned to Orkneys, and he was a ship's carpenter and he is my best bet although Simon is the only brother whose name appears in family papers so he is my 2nd bet. Can you find me any of these Smith boys?

Debra  :)


Offline Jason46

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Re: flett
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 16 October 13 04:01 BST (UK) »
Thank you for this assistance. Let me give you some information which I hope will be pertinent. Jane was born 24 August 1827 and died 8 January, 1886, which meant she was 58 when she died, not 56 which is stated on the headstone and her death Certificate. Her husband was the informant. I have some discharge papers for him  showing that he was a ship's carpenter on the Patriot out of South Shields from March 1846 to August 1849, and was working on the British Tan out of South Shields on the Cork - Llannelly Quebec run from 1851 to 1854, and that he arrived in Australia 24 Dec 1854 on the Stebonheath. It seems very unlikely he made another trip to Australia before 1854 and I believe he was working all of the time in Australia at the Wright Orr and Co docks which he eventually became a partner in. I have a birth Cert and Baptism Cert from the Society School in Harray which was extracted from the Registry of Births for the Parish of Harray (Orkney). Interestingly, this document was requested on 22nd Feb 1850, which he may have needed when he started working outside Scotland. Can you give me the document details that I would need to get the death certificate for the 2nd Son whose date of death is 1862. Interestingly, in John's hand writing on his birth certificate are the birth and death dates of all 3 sons named John, and the 2nd son was recorded as dying 2nd January 1861. 
Carpenter - Devon and Australia
Flett - Orkneys
Morrell - Antrim, France, Switzerland and Ballarat
Wilcher - Bermondsey and Birmingham
Roberts - Liverpool
Price - Monmouthshire
Smith - Orkneys
Barnsley - Cumberland
Discombe - Devon
Brewer - Devon
Torrington - Devon

Offline cando

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Re: flett
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 16 October 13 05:05 BST (UK) »
I wonder if there is some confusion here especially if the headstone was erected years after the event.  There was a death of a John FLETT who was three years old in 1861.

Death
FLETT John
Father James  Mother Isabella PATTERSON
3 years  Born Melbourne  1861  Reg#881

According to the death registration John died in 1862 not 1861.  If it is your person of interest and the day and month ie 6 Jan are correct then he was born 16 Dec 1861.

Death
FLETT John
Father John Mother Jane Unknown
1862  3 weeks  Born Williamstown  Reg#3235

The only document which will identify John's date of death is his death certificate. 

You can purchase an image of this online and immediately download. You will need the registration number.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

Quote
Interestingly, in John's hand writing on his birth certificate are the birth and death dates of all 3 sons named John, and the 2nd son was recorded as dying 2nd January 1861. 

The local registrars completed the information in the registers from oral information from the informants.  The informants did not write in the register other than his/her signature or mark etc.  The registrars often wrote the description and residence also.

Obviously the father made an error with the year of death.

Headstones are not always accurate and in this case  I would certainly require at least two other sources for the date of death. 

Apologies if I have duplicated info.

Cando


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Offline cando

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Re: Jane Flett - how did she get here?
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 16 October 13 05:25 BST (UK) »
Quote
Someone here mentioned a son who died in 1862???? Their is a date wrong here for the second John.

Two sources [death registration and Williamstown cemetery database] state the death was in 1862 and it is obviously an error on the headstone which may have been erected years later.

I have posted this info on the other thread.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=630726.msg5098285#msg5098285

Death
FLETT John
Father John  Mother Jane Unknown
1862 3 weeks  Born Williamstown  Reg#3235

Williamstown Cemetery
FLETT John
Interred on 7 Jan 1862
PRES*A*8**3
Area   [W] Presbyterian

Cando





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Offline cherokee

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Re: Jane Flett - how did she get here?
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 16 October 13 11:19 BST (UK) »
The White Swan on one of my CD's appears to be a costal steamer sailing from Melbourne to Adelaide (in 1855.) Maybe your lady arrived from overseas at Adelaide, or even Portland Vic. Just a thought?
Cherokee

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Offline Jason46

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Re: Jane Flett - how did she get here?
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 17 October 13 00:36 BST (UK) »
Hi Cando and Jude
Could you give me the information I need to access the death register and the Williamstown Cemetery database so that I can get a copy of these. I checked out the rootschat article and it only gives the information, not where I could access it. Jude i would appreciate it if you do get the chance to look at the Black Swan passenger list. So many mistakes on the headstone and on the father's notes- date of death of son, age at date of death of wife. Thank you for very helpful advice and assistance
Carpenter - Devon and Australia
Flett - Orkneys
Morrell - Antrim, France, Switzerland and Ballarat
Wilcher - Bermondsey and Birmingham
Roberts - Liverpool
Price - Monmouthshire
Smith - Orkneys
Barnsley - Cumberland
Discombe - Devon
Brewer - Devon
Torrington - Devon