Hegarty/Mullan in "Boye"

[gaffy]

5 baptism 'hits' come back on the RootsIreland index for Thomas Hegarty and Ellen Mullan, all Co. Londonderry. There's no Daniel, but RootsIreland can be quite patchy in its coverage.  In any case they are in the right time zone to be siblings. The records are pay to view should you wish to see the detail.

The townland is Brockaboy (Brockaghaboy, Brockabuoy and other variants) in the civil parish of Errigal. There are several Hegartys (inc. a Thomas) in the relevant townland on Griffiths Valuation, still a Hegarty presence there in the Ireland Census. And several Hegarty from Brockaboy will entries on the PRONI website.
 

[aghadowey]

In relation to the numbers and letters 'MGR' in RootsIreland records, I once contacted them with that very query and all I got back was the following:
"It simply indicates that this is a comment for clarification."

Not very helpful of them, is it? you'd think the 'comment' would appear at start or finish rather than in the middle 

Brockaboy is outside the village of Garvagh and makes sense as there are/were Hegartys there. There will be gaps in the church records which could explain Daniel's details not appearing. Brockaboy comes under Coleraine registration district. However, a word of caution, there will be seberal Hegarty families there and they re-use the same Christian names over and over again so it can get complication.

[kvnptrck11]

Hi, just a late follow up. I believe the "MGR" is the old common abbreviation for Monsignor, which is mostly associated with the title used in the Catholic Church. As far as the numbers, that was the payment made, called an honorarium, in £ s d. Also more common in the Catholic Church. Typically, the donations/offerings or whatever during mass were recorded and kept track of. Additionally, honorariums should have been kept track of, and they should've been kept track of separately from the donations/offerings. As the word implies, an honorarium is not required, therefore, assuming the Church did keep track of them, a
"0 0 0" or no numbers, means there was no honorarium money paid. You'll notice that certain priests recorded no honorarium as "0 0 0", while others kept it blank.

[gaffy]

Hi, just a late follow up. I believe the "MGR" is the old common abbreviation for Monsignor, which is mostly associated with the title used in the Catholic Church. As far as the numbers, that was the payment made, called an honorarium, in £ s d. Also more common in the Catholic Church. Typically, the donations/offerings or whatever during mass were recorded and kept track of. Additionally, honorariums should have been kept track of, and they should've been kept track of separately from the donations/offerings. As the word implies, an honorarium is not required, therefore, assuming the Church did keep track of them, a
"0 0 0" or no numbers, means there was no honorarium money paid. You'll notice that certain priests recorded no honorarium as "0 0 0", while others kept it blank.

That is a very good theory but there is a problem with it.

You see, I 've seen hundreds of RootsIreland records and "MGR" isn't restricted to RC records, it also appears in records for protestants marrying in Church of Ireland and Presbyterian churchs.  The numbers vary from record to record.

Hence why I contacted RootsIreland for their version.  I suspect that while the actual comment might appear in the original documentary record, the "MGR" and numbers may be something that the RootsIreland system / database / application adds.

[kvnptrck11]

Not sure what you mean by theory, I said TYPICALLY RC.

Another thing, the MGR title was used several denominations of Christianity. There are various informal definitions. Even in Catholicism, it used to vary in its meaning.

As far as the numbers go, that is is what most would consider a fact. Three priests that have no association with each other, other than having the same occupation and religious views, have backed that up. It stood for money, and for an honorarium. Yes, the numbers vary. When you them in the format of "0 0 0", regardless of what those numbers are, it's for accounting purposes

[aghadowey]

As far as I know, the Roman Catholic church is the only one in Ireland the uses the title Monsignor (or anything like it)- certainly the Church of Ireland, Presbyterians, Methodists, Congregationalist and Baptists don't. If you can name whatever other religion does so I'd be most interested.

I haven't really used RootsIreland for Co. Derry records but if gaffy has seen this 'code' used in non-Catholic records then the explanation is unlikely to be a title and payments pertaining to R.C. records only.

Does seem strange that RootsIreland cannot offer an explanation of this bit of their own database.

[kvnptrck11]

The MGR part is TYPICALLY used by Catholics. Typically, as in more so than in other denominations. And MSG was most definitely used by all denominations, even athiests. Monsignor.

That being said. Regardless of what MGR means, the numbers are transfers of money, which is the portion of my response that I referred to when I said that is what a number of different priests said. On top of that, I have not seen a single record filed by the registrar that had such numbers.

So again, MGR is speculation, which could be explored by seeing if a given priest was given that title.


The accounting and it's notation in church records was a "pretty standard item to note on there".

Perhaps some other religious folk could inquire with their respective reverends, etc. to see if there's anything they can offer with regard to info? How's that sound for a resolution? And then post your findings. Open to anyone.

Ps I have a Methodist church noting a "monsignor", but I have not found others outside of RC parishes, so that's still openly debatable as well.

[aghadowey]

The MGR part is TYPICALLY used by Catholics. Typically, as in more so than in other denominations. And MSG was most definitely used by all denominations, even athiests. Monsignor.

Afraid not. I can't speak for all denominations in Ireland but the major ones certainly do not have such a title- Methodists, Presbyterians, Reformed Presbyterians, Church of Ireland and Baptists to name a few.

[kvnptrck11]

I don't think think any of them do either, not to my knowledge. That's why I said, typically RC. To simply state that no one has those titles would be misleading, that's why I didn't say that NO ONE in other denominations has ever had that title.

In other words, I have not personally met and monitored each and every priest/reverend, etc., and therefore me publicly denouncing that no one has such a title, would be a lie. I can be reasonably sure that there's been exceptions aside from official church titles. There is no church title, correct. People convert. There's Anglicans that have been given the title monsignor at a later time, there's various exceptions throughout history of people from every denomination. I am not going to mislead people by stating that it doesn't exist. Aside from that, you and I have already agreed that the whole "mgr" thing is probably not monsignor, so again, the point of my post was and still is the "numbers" portion. Which, if you've seen on some original records, even have £ s d on them above those numbers on them. So, if you have some other idea of what £ s d could possibly mean, other than money, then feel free to let everyone know. Aside from that, anyone else wondering what these numbers could mean, might find my post useful. If you don't find this to be useful information for you, then that is ok. Don't try to invalidate the useful portion of my post (the numbers) by undermining something that both of us already know that neither of us knows (the "mgr"), because that's not useful to anyone. If the information on these numbers is news to you, than I appreciate the cynicism, and being a researcher in a completely different field I understand where you're coming from when you come across something you believe you would've heard about before. There's not always everything is x and if not x, then y, no exceptions. There's exceptions to everything, and if you learn nothing from anything else I post, learn that.