Pheniy family in Hillsborough, Co Down in 1892

[aghadowey]

I am convince that the surname is Phenix and not any of the other variations you've mentioned. Putting aside my view, have a look at the facts-
1) there is no listing for those other names in the 1901 and 1911 Irish census records (searching for Pheni* only brings up the surname Phenix).
2) Ros Davies' Co. Down site lists Phenix/Phoenix but not Pheniy, Phenig or Pheniq.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/P/PhPi.htm
3) there were people called Phenix in and around Hillsborough (but again those other names do not appear)
4) there doesn't seem to be a marriage for an Isabella Kelly to a ? Phine* in Ireland. A search for ? Phenix shows only Matthew Phenix & Isabella Irvine who have been mentioned earlier

[elderone1]

That has me stumped. I know other relatives that changed the spelling of their names for various reasons. Perhaps I should look at Feeney and its similar sonix.

Isabella may have been a bit of a maverick!

[elderone1]

I reviewed the various suggestions, and the reference to death records in Lisburn comes closest to a match. That entry describes an Isabella Phoenix, with death recorded  Jan-Mar 1896 in Lisburn. It gives an age of 59 years and an estimated birth year of 1837. Maiden name is blank.

The Isabella Ph....... letter mentions an "Elizabeth" that was planning to send "sonny" a new dress, but there was not enough time now as the John Kelly family was leaving Ireland forever. The child is interpreted as being John's 10 month-old son in 1892. Isabella knew that John's mother had just died, but no mention that his father had died in 1890. No way of finding out who Elizabeth was, but it is written as if they would know her. Maybe just a room-mate.

So we have an Isabella Kelly who arrived at NPC in 1863, was a witness to Maria Kelly's marriage in 1865, and may be the Isabella Kelly who gave birth to Jane Kelly, 17 June 1865 in Bellaghy, Rasharkin Parish District of Clough, Union of Ballymena, with no father identified. Then she disappears as a Kelly. We know she was not the Isabella who married a Phenix in 1858, because then she could not have been a Kelly in 1863 or 1865.

If the death record is of our Isabella, then it suggests she either died alone, or those with her knew nothing of her family background. She may have made up her last name. A sad end, whoever she might have been.

[aghadowey]

That entry describes an Isabella Phoenix, with death recorded  Jan-Mar 1896 in Lisburn. It gives an age of 59 years and an estimated birth year of 1837. Maiden name is blank.
Maiden names are not listed on death certificates but one thing the certificate will say is marital status (single, married, widowed, divorced).

If the death record is of our Isabella, then it suggests she either died alone, or those with her knew nothing of her family background. She may have made up her last name.
The certificate will also show name and address of informant which could be an important clue. Not sure what basis there is for thinking she may have 'made up her last name' or indeed for thinking she was Isabella Kelly.

[elderone1]

Hi again,
I guess my impatience is getting ahead of the work I am simultaneously paying a professional researcher to determine, which is to discover the first name and eventual passing of my great-great-great Grandmother, Mrs. David Kelly from Co. Down.

I know pretty much everything from my great-great Grandparents (Robert Kelly & Mary Jane Swann) on down. I visited his family gravesite in May, and spent time with my cousins in the area. My "newly discovered USA" cousin (September) provided me with a copy of a clearly written letter to her great-great Grandfather John & Mrs. (Martha) Kelly by an Isabella Pheni......, who addresses John as her "cousin".

There is sufficient detail in public documents to link Robert Kelly and John Kelly as sons of a David Kelly, and the same David Kelly. The Isabella whateverhernameis appears to be an older 1st cousin to Maria, Robert and John Kelly. Perhaps the Isabella Phoenix (1837-1896) who died in Lisburn is that person. We continue searching for "pieces" that could get back to their origins in County Down.

Sincerely,
David A. Kelly

[elderone1]

Aha....I found how to get back to this "conversation" and became aware that the clues to further information were in fact yours "aghadowey".

Thank you.

My other links are to the children of John Stuart and Maria (Kelly) Stuart, two born in Co. Down, and the last one, in 1871,  in Newtown Crommelin, Co. Antrim. For that child, it was reported that Maria gave the Newtown Crommelin area address of her mother as her residence upon the birth. The priority one objective of the search is to find a name for Maria's mother. The person posting that information, Henry Hume, has not been back to this site in over a year, but if his email link has not changed, he should have received my targeted message request.

The Isabella Kelly that was the other search objective was one of the two witnesses to John and Maria's wedding, hence the target linkage.

[scotmum]

So folks on this thread know what suggestions have been made on the other thread, regarding 'Mrs David Kelly - Maria's mother', here's the link:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=351558.20