Author Topic: Father of Thomas Smith born Hanslope, Northamptonshire, England  (Read 10575 times)

Offline :sjl

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Re: Father of Thomas Smith born Hanslope, Northamptonshire, England
« Reply #45 on: Monday 14 October 13 00:41 BST (UK) »
As for baptisms, you're interested in the Thornton and Whaddon Smiths, but again you could do with getting the marriage and burial searches for the same period to double check who married and who perhaps died young.

am I allowed to post on here what I got from BUCKINGHAMSHIRE....hopefully it IS BUCKINGHAMSHIRE, that I am suppose to looking at.

:sjl


Offline :sjl

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Re: Father of Thomas Smith born Hanslope, Northamptonshire, England
« Reply #46 on: Monday 14 October 13 01:08 BST (UK) »
As for baptisms, you're interested in the Thornton and Whaddon Smiths, but again you could do with getting the marriage and burial searches for the same period to double check who married and who perhaps died young.

am I allowed to post on here what I got from BUCKINGHAMSHIRE....hopefully it IS BUCKINGHAMSHIRE, that I am suppose to looking at.

:sjl


Just looked at Thornton, Buckinghamshire, Baptisms.

there are only three families listed in the baptisms.

Henry & Mary Smith in 1784 and 1786

Thomas & Maria Smith with 8 children covering 1820 to 1840 - he is a labourer
they live in Thornton
one child is
Thomas baptised 7 april 1822

and Mathew & Sarah Smith  with one child Flora [ I think it is safe to say this is NOT the family were were looking for...


does any of THIS help?

:sjl

Offline :sjl

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Re: Father of Thomas Smith born Hanslope, Northamptonshire, England
« Reply #47 on: Monday 14 October 13 01:25 BST (UK) »
[b Nicola said:
As for baptisms, you're interested in the Thornton and Whaddon Smiths, but again you could do with getting the marriage and burial searches for the same period to double check who married and who perhaps died young.
[/b]

we are looking for Thomas Smith the father and son???? correct???

the son Thomas Smith  - who married Eliza Read born  around 1817

and his  father Thomas Smith born about circa 1797.....and was a gameskeeper [ according to the marriage certificate of Eliza Read and Thomas Smith.
correct.

okay so looking in this time frame on the Whaddon, Buckinghamshire, England - Baptisms.

I find

a thomas smith baptised 28 Aug 1796 son of William & Ann Smith

Prior to that the first Thomas listed was baptised 6 Mar 1763 son of Thomas and Aina Smith of Nash - I presume this is too early to be the right one

  the next Thomas Smith was baptised 20 Nov 1803 son of Thomas & Mary Smith of Nash

the next Thomas Smith was baptised 29 April 1821 - baseborn ??? - son of Catherine Smith of Roundhill Singlewoman

the next Thomas Smith was baptised 6 Sept 1840 son of William & Sarah Smith of Nash, LABOURER

none of the other baptism has an occupation with the information

so this is PAST the possible birth of Thomas Smith who married Eliza Read.

so we are NO further ahead, are we?  other than eliminating Whaddon as the place that he was baptized....?

:sjl

Offline :sjl

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Re: Father of Thomas Smith born Hanslope, Northamptonshire, England
« Reply #48 on: Monday 14 October 13 03:24 BST (UK) »
Nicola wrote :
If that's the case, it would probably be worth your while to purchase the death certificate of the Eliza Smith I quoted earlier to see if it definately confirms she's Eliza Read.  OK I know you don't like purchasing for just one entry but sorry you will have to do that occasionally as no other way to get the information.  That should definately confirm she died before the 1851 Census.  If it's not her husband who is the informant, chances are it would be one of her relatives as that Eliza Smith is buried in Wicken.


this is the person you are referring to.....

Eliza Smith [nee Read] - DEATH

Wicken P. C.
pg 43 NO. 343
Eliza Smith, Wicken, 12 April 1846, 26


so I would need to contact NORTHAMPTONSHIRE FAMILY HISTORY CENTER??? for this info???


correct????

so just looking to see WHERE I would need to order the marriage and death certicates going by the fact that she married and died in Northamptonshire.

the Northamptonshire Family History Center says this info is available at FIND __ PAST..

so I looked there and I don't see any matches.

if that is the case WHY would I go to the effort of ordering something that is probably going to be wrong?

again not trying to be a DELIBERATE pain....just trying to follow your directions but don't seem to be able to complete the orders....ha ha

:sjl


Offline :sjl

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Re: Father of Thomas Smith born Hanslope, Northamptonshire, England
« Reply #49 on: Monday 14 October 13 03:36 BST (UK) »
Death of Eliza Smith [nee Read]

I looked once again  this time I have found two possible suggestions for the Eliza Smith [nee Read]
on Find -- Past....

they will cost me 5 credits each.

having never used this site before IF THIS IS THE SITE YOU WANT ME TO USE....will the results be a certificate?

again no point in using it IF I am not going to get the information that we are ALL after.

Again I apologize for being such a pain.

****

looked again for the death and don't see anything that matches.

thanks again

:sjl

Offline seahall

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Re: Father of Thomas Smith born Hanslope, Northamptonshire, England
« Reply #50 on: Monday 14 October 13 08:05 BST (UK) »
Morning sjl.

I think the confusion we are having is the topic is getting so long and mixed up,
mainly because it is having previous lumps of posting and asking advice rather than
just noting what is needed. My personal opinion.

So maybe a short summary is needed.

The marriage of Thomas and Sarah Mitchell in 1850 is a certificate you would need to
confirm if your Thomas remarried. Freebmd note it as Mar Qtr,1850
Winslow R.D., Vol 6, Page 485.

The burial on Eliza Read on Find My Past would just give you the same information
I noted from the burial entry, it would not be a death certificate, that you would also
have to purchase. Therefore no need to contact the Northants Family History Society.
Here is the reference from Freebmd Jun Qtr 1846 Potterspury R.D. Vol. 15, Page 241.

If you want to get these certificates then maybe look at what is needed next, i.e. all
the marriages, burials for Buckinghamshire as suggested by Nicola.

At the end of the day we are here to assist you if we can, especially as you are not
in our Country and therefore do not have access to the records.

Sandy
Census Crown Copyright

Offline seahall

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Re: Father of Thomas Smith born Hanslope, Northamptonshire, England
« Reply #51 on: Monday 14 October 13 08:22 BST (UK) »
Here are some web links that maybe of help.
General
FREEBMD            http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
FREEREG            http://www.freereg.org.uk/
FAMILYSEARCH   https://familysearch.org/
FREECEN            http://www.freecen.org.uk/

Northants
Alan Clarke and Marilyn Pontings Northants Indexes   http://www.familyhistorynorthants.co.uk
The Northants look up exchange       http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/anna.smart/nth.htm
Northants Record Office                   http://www.rootschat.com/links/0l6m/
Northants Family History Society       http://www.northants-fhs.org/

Sandy
Census Crown Copyright

Offline Orpheus

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Re: Father of Thomas Smith born Hanslope, Northamptonshire, England
« Reply #52 on: Monday 14 October 13 09:08 BST (UK) »
Sharon

You can order an official birth, death or marriage certificate using the following site:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content
Quartermain and variants - Oxfordshire
Wiggins - Oxfordshire
Lowe - Charney Bassett, Berkshire
Bettle - Bedfordshire and Northamptonshire
Marshall - Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire
Goodman - Buckinghamshire

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Father of Thomas Smith born Hanslope, Northamptonshire, England
« Reply #53 on: Monday 14 October 13 10:11 BST (UK) »
In addition to what Sandy has already said, and to clarify how you need to approach this yourself and what you need to purchase, I would make the following points:

1.  Obtain a copy of Eliza Smith's death certificate (Sandy has confirmed the details) from the site that Orpheus has provided you a link to. 

2.  Obtain marriage and burial searches from Bucks FHS for the same time period you obtained baptisms.

3.  Check that Thomas Smith, son of Thomas and Maria, baptised in Thornton in April 1822 did not die as a child.

Just because Thomas Smith, with wife Maria, is listed as a labourer on his children's baptisms does not mean he is not the correct Thomas Smith.  On the 1841 Census, one year before your Thomas married Eliza Read, he was listed as a gamekeeper.  Somebody working as a labourer could quite easily become a gamekeeper and then revert back to a labourer again.

Assuming Thomas Smith baptised Thornton in April 1822 is not buried in Thornton before 1842, then this will most likely be your Thomas for the aforementioned reasons.  The 1851 Census entry in Passenham with second wife Hannah lists him as a cordwainer born c1821 so all the details agree with his 1842 marriage.  As Marilyn has given you the details of his second marriage, there is no need to obtain a copy of the certificate and I did not say you needed to.  At no point does this Thomas Smith, shoemaker, claim to be born in 1817 - you are confusing him with the Lillingstone Dayrell Thomas who is NOT yours.

4.  You need to confirm Thomas Smith's mother Maria's maiden name.  The Daniel Adams with them on the 1841 Census may be her father but unless the baptism of Thomas Smith in 1822 lists his mother's maiden name (not impossible but unlikely) you will need to purchase the birth certificate of her youngest child, Joseph, to confirm her maiden name.  This would appear to be the correct details:

Joseph Smith Sept qtr 1840 Buckingham (Registration District) Vol 6 Page 316


You can order this from the previously mentioned GRO website. 

Smith is too common a surname to take a guess at the correct marriage without further checking.

5.  When you have the birth certificate, you can then check the marriage search results to confirm where and when Thomas and Maria married.   This will not tell you either Thomas or Maria's father's name because it will have occurred before 1837 and the start of civil registration.

6.  Thomas senior, gamekeeper and labourer, remarried before 1851.  As Sandy has mentioned, you need to obtain a copy of this marriage certificate to conclusively confirm his father's name.  The details appear to be the following:

Thomas Smith March qtr 1850 Winslow RD Vol 6 Page 485


Tattenhoe, where Thomas senior is living with his two youngest sons in 1851, is in Winslow RD.  Although it would seem he intended to marry Sarah Mitchell in 1847, it does not look like they actually married until 1850.  This seems the most likely marriage certificate but you would need to consider the details on it with other information from the Census, such as occupation and residency.

7. The Thomas Smith baptism you mention in Whaddon in 1796 is more than likely Thomas the gamekeeper but the marriage certificate should hopefully confirm this.  You can then look for his parent's marriage from the search results from Bucks FHS.

10.  When you have Maria's surname from her son Joseph's birth certificate, you can then obtain baptism/marriage/burial searches from Bucks FHS for that surname to look for her parents.   She is listed as born in county on the 1841 Census so hopefully you should be able to find this.

As Sandy has said, we are here to help you with your research but you need to obtain what has been suggested.

Nicola

(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day