Putz Hackney

[louisa maud]

For information only
Emily Putz aged 22 of  Poplar father Samuel Charles Putz confectioner
married Parish Church Poplar
03/05/1891
to
John Sargent 21 of Poplar father John Sargent shoemaker
witnesses Albert Edgar Putz and Nellie Gardiner

Louisa Maud

[Wendy260]

Thank you Louisa Maud.  Do you know if Florence Maud Putz born July 1875, Lambeth, 1d 434 was last child born to Samuel and Emily?  The Rough Settlement Exam shared by Bookbox for Sameul say he lived Lambeth Walk, 4 years, renting in 1875.  Think that's means they had moved from Greycoat to Lambeth Walk.  If Florence was his daughter, he'd managed to have a lot of kids right up to the time he went into care.  I didn't find him on the 1871 with Emily, I could be missing it.  I have her at age 38years as Head in Kennington, Lambeth with Alex, Samuel (jr), William, Priscilla, Walter, Arthur, Henry, Thomas, George and Emily.  Samuel was admitted to Princes road infirmary Jan, 1875.  Wondering if poor Emily was with child at that time as well as all the other kids.  Either way, I'm constantly amazed how resilient these women of those times were.  I know ladies who have a breakdown when the dishwasher breaks!

Samuel Charles Chichester Putz was born 1877, same year his grandfather died.  Does anyone know if that was Wandsworth Workhouse infirmary (maternity area)?  I see Union Road, Wandsworth.  Again, I'm not familiar with those workhouses or areas.  Curious if there were two workhouse situations going on in 1877 within same family. 

Thanks for any light shed on these questions.  I will order Samuel's death certif.  Thanks for the tip he was listed as Pulz!  Wendy260

[louisa maud]

Florence Maude Louise Putz
baptised17/07/1875
of Samuel and Alice, father a commercial clerk
address at baptism 1 Ashmole Cotts Kennington
Not listed as mother Emily ?

Louisa Maud

added,
 also at St Marks Kennington are baptisms of
Alexander Patrick
Emily Charlotte
Thomas William
all on 02/07/1873
address 2 Albert Cotts Church Street
of Samuel and Emily

Samuel Charles Chichester Pulz
baptised 08/08/1878
St Mary Newington
of Samuel Charles and Ellen Mary Louisa, occ of father billards maker
of Swan St

[JaneyCanuck]

In 1881, Samuel Putz the son of Samuel and Emily is a "clerk mercantile".
In 1871, he was a "clerk to locksmith".

It seems that Florence 1875 was his daughter.

He and Ellen Reed married in the December quarter of 1875, while Florence was baptised in July of that year (birth reg in September quarter so presumably born in July or late June).

It looks as if Samuel had a child with another woman before marrying Ellen -- unless there is some mistake on the baptism record and Alice was really Ellen. Only Florence's birth certificate would say for sure.

[louisa maud]

I did double check the names as I wasn't expecting it to be an Alice, perhaps a purchase of a birth cert might clarify it

LM

[JaneyCanuck]

I didn't mean you, Louisa Maud. Just whether the vicar made a mistake or some such. Yup, the birth certificate should do the trick -- and if it helps to date father Samuel's last known event with the family (i.e. if not as father of Florence), it could be a good idea.

Hang on ... where is Florence Putz in censuses? She must be the one who marries in 1895 in St Saviour, but in 1881 and 1891? She isn't with Emily (Jobson) in 1881.

Sounds like maybe she stayed with her mother Alice.

[louisa maud]

No Janey
I had already checked the names, I wouldn't mind betting they were on the census but spelt wrongly  somewhere

I would purchase a cert or 2 in this case
LM

[JaneyCanuck]

What I'm getting at:

Florence Putz was born in 1875 married in 1895.

In 1881, Emily Putz is in the census as Emily Jobson with Putz children.
- Florence 1875 is not with her.

In 1881, Samuel Putz, son of Samuel and Emily, is in the census with his wife Ellen Mary L (called Louisa in the census, assuming that is the same person).
- Florence 1875 is not with him.
(They have a daughter Ellen, born 1876.)

Florence must have been the daughter of young Samuel and a woman named Alice (and he acknowledged her, by her being baptised and registered in his name).

In 1881/1891, Florence could be with her mother Alice under Alice's surname, or with her mother Alice under the surname of a man Alice subsequently married, for instance. Or with maternal grandparents, etc.

And the birth certificate will tell the tale, whatever it be!

[Wendy260]

Janey & Louisa,
  Her full name was Florence Maud Louisa Putz.  Samuel (Jr's) wife was Ellen Mary Louisa Reed.  Unlikely another woman would name her daughter (other woman being "Alice") after Ellen. 

There was also Priscilla Louisa Putz, Sam's sister.  Florence could of been named after her even if the child of the unknown Alice.   I will look further as to who is the mother and resort to the certif if no light shed.  If the registrar had the name wrong, the certif won't help much. 

As to Priscilla Louisa Putz there is also a question.  Emily Putz was the daughter of George Mills and Priscilla Huggens (having named their daughter Priscilla after Emily's mother).  Born in Hoxne, Suffolk.  There was a James Huggins & wife Maria in Hoxne who had a son called Frederick Huggins.  His daughter was Priscilla Helen Huggens born Hoxne, Nov 10 1854 (4a 423).  She married William Herbert Putz on Nov 7 1875 (yes, the same year Florence was born and Samuel senior was interviewed by the Lambeth council).  I believe its possible he married his cousin.  Of course, that was common in those days and not a big deal.  Do you know the relationship of James Huggins and Priscilla Huggins (Emily's parent) in Hoxne?  Whew.  I sure hope I've got this right.

Now back to look for more on Florence and why she was not with Emily (Jobson) on the census...

Thanks for your input and clarifications!  Wendy260